Forum | Thinking With Portals

#11 · December 19, 2010, 9:05 pm

Whysopro? wrote:

Pfft! Fine. I am disgusted knowing that there are cheaters out there.

Motanum wrote:

Say, you have a long map, and you just cant be bothered to do the first bit, or just want to no clip to see the immense big map you just made, or you need to go back and check something again. As a developer it is nice to noclip

Isn't that what the cordon tool is for?

Possibly, but personally, I find it a pain to work with placing multiple player starts. In addition, a lot of the times something in a map won't work if a portion is cordoned off. For instance, a box dropper which points to a template on top of another dropper (which may be cordoned off), won't function correctly. I just find it quicker to noclip, especially since I've bound a key to it.

Now with 100% more inline comments!

#12 · December 19, 2010, 10:41 pm

Quote from Mevious on December 19, 2010, 10:41 pm
Whysopro? wrote:

Pfft! Fine. I am disgusted knowing that there are cheaters out there.

Not all noclipping is "morally bad" noclipping. If someone uses noclip to go straight from the beginning to the end, without any chance to experience your map, that is morally bad noclipping. There are a bunch of morally good reasons to use noclip, and it would be silly to punish someone for doing these:
1. There's a bug in the map, and you use noclip to pass it.
2. You forget to save, die, and want to skip to where you were.
3. You want to study the map as a whole without decompiling.
4. One part of the map has a ridiculously difficult fling, or a stupidly narrow timing window, and you simply want to skip that part and move on to the more fun stuff. I actually would consider this cheating, but depending on how shitty the map is, it can still be morally good.

Personally I think it's a waste of time to even consider the play experience of someone who uses morally bad cheats. What's the point? They aren't "playing" Portal, so why care how they "don't play" your map? If someone is set on cheating, and it ends up killing them, they are likely just to quit the map and never think about it again. What they definitely aren't going to do, is think "kudos to this mapper for punishing me for cheating" and then play the map without cheats. Also, anyone can noclip and stay inside the map the entire time. Killing someone for leaving a map isn't the same as killing someone for using noclip.

I get the feeling that you are confusing noclipping with the out of bounds glitch. Many people do not consider this glitch to be cheating, or even morally bad, and it's understandable that you would want to actively prevent it in your maps. There are other ways to deal with this issue. This thread covers the topic:
general-discussion/using-out-of-bounds-is-a-bannable-offense-t1682.html

HMW wrote:

So if I understand correctly, making the outside of the map non-portal compatible doesn't necessarily prevent players from reaching the void, it just prevents them from getting back inside, disabling the use of OOB as a practical exploit.

I have never tried this, so I can't vouch for it.

Whysopro? wrote:

Pfft! Fine. I am disgusted knowing that there are cheaters out there.

Not all noclipping is "morally bad" noclipping. If someone uses noclip to go straight from the beginning to the end, without any chance to experience your map, that is morally bad noclipping. There are a bunch of morally good reasons to use noclip, and it would be silly to punish someone for doing these:
1. There's a bug in the map, and you use noclip to pass it.
2. You forget to save, die, and want to skip to where you were.
3. You want to study the map as a whole without decompiling.
4. One part of the map has a ridiculously difficult fling, or a stupidly narrow timing window, and you simply want to skip that part and move on to the more fun stuff. I actually would consider this cheating, but depending on how shitty the map is, it can still be morally good.

Personally I think it's a waste of time to even consider the play experience of someone who uses morally bad cheats. What's the point? They aren't "playing" Portal, so why care how they "don't play" your map? If someone is set on cheating, and it ends up killing them, they are likely just to quit the map and never think about it again. What they definitely aren't going to do, is think "kudos to this mapper for punishing me for cheating" and then play the map without cheats. Also, anyone can noclip and stay inside the map the entire time. Killing someone for leaving a map isn't the same as killing someone for using noclip.

I get the feeling that you are confusing noclipping with the out of bounds glitch. Many people do not consider this glitch to be cheating, or even morally bad, and it's understandable that you would want to actively prevent it in your maps. There are other ways to deal with this issue. This thread covers the topic:
general-discussion/using-out-of-bounds-is-a-bannable-offense-t1682.html

HMW wrote:

So if I understand correctly, making the outside of the map non-portal compatible doesn't necessarily prevent players from reaching the void, it just prevents them from getting back inside, disabling the use of OOB as a practical exploit.

I have never tried this, so I can't vouch for it.

Mevious
Portal 1: Portal Pro, Resurrection, Dyad, Rexaura
Portal 2: [Coop] Electrophobia, [PTI] EotM Collection, [SP] Aperture Halloween

#13 · December 20, 2010, 3:31 pm

Okay I understand the situation now. Seeing as I only just started mapping anyways I was too focused on the players POV when playing the game and not from a developer perspective.

Alright so if people want to cheat then fine, but I would never make an uber hard fling or some extremely narrow crouch jump through 7 portals. =D

I hate hanging with angry people. Why live life if your not having fun ALL the time? =)
O o
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Detect if player is outside of world?