Quote from Duffers on November 20, 2007, 10:30 am

youme wrote:

The very fact that you NEED tunneling to get gold on one of the chambers says it isnt an exploit.

However, saying that I don't tunnel myself and unless it is the specific intention of a puzzle or I'm just fucking about on a sandbox level I don't ever intend to use it.

I'm pretty sure you're supposed to jump in the water there, but whatever. You get my point.

Quote from yikkayaya on November 20, 2007, 10:59 am

Duffedwaffe wrote:

Oh, I have listened to them. Just because they say that doesn't mean it's the only reason. I mean... they had the same "problem" with Narbacular Drop... You could set a portal while looking through another portal. This exploit was heavily abused. Thus, this change was made where the player is forced out of the portal when another is fired. Didn't work too well, and for some idiotic reason people don't think of it as an exploit. Just because it isn't fixed doesn't mean it's not an exploit. The prop jumping technique still exists, because there was no solution. Maybe there's no solution to this, too. Ever think of that? Perhaps if you were shoved out of the area of the portal altogether it would make it harder to do flings or something. What about placing a portal right before you hit the ground? You would just be flung into the air.

So yes, I'm saying you're an idiot if you don't consider this an exploit.

They could always remove the slight delay from when the portal is shot 'til it hits the target (flying time), or force players to actually walk completely out of a portal instead just 3/4 before you can place a new one.

Duffedwaffe wrote:

I'm pretty sure you're supposed to jump in the water there, but whatever. You get my point.

And would you care to explain exactly how you are supposed to do the gold challenge in chamber 16 (or whichever?) by jumping into the water of death?

Quote from Duffers on November 20, 2007, 11:02 am

Jump in, portal out, fall in, portal out.

Quote from Rivid31 on November 20, 2007, 11:07 am

How can you portal out? the wall below the water is metal. I can't believe you honestly solved this puzzle without tunneling.

I'm surprised so many people think this is an exploit. It seems clear to me that the team knew about it and left it in, and then encorporated it in a solution. I was in the middle of writing exactly what yikkayaya wrote in his last post here, but he types faster than me.

One another note: even though I disagree with you guys, it is still useful information in future map making that people think this is an exploit. I'll make an effort to use as little tunneling as possible, or keep it all to the challenges.

Quote from Shmitz on November 20, 2007, 11:26 am

espen180 wrote:

Tunneling: Exploit. Should not be included as a required solution because it's an exploit based on portal travel time.

This is exactly why it doesn't fall into the category of exploit. Exploits take advantage of bugs in the game. Portal travel time is not a bug. It is just another factor of thinking with portals. There is a travel time; therefore it can be used.

The only thing that does bother me about tunneling is that you can stay inside your portal. If you're standing in a wall and you change your portal, it should totally spit you out in such a way that you can't magically step right back in.

From a purely logical point of view, I would consider door propping to be ok too. However, door propping can turn buggy very quickly, with the doors shoving the object into the floor and out of the world, which leads me to believe it's a very unintended way to do anything.

Quote from youme on November 20, 2007, 11:28 am

Rivid31 wrote:

One another note: even though I disagree with you guys, it is still useful information in future map making that people think this is an exploit. I'll make an effort to use as little tunneling as possible, or keep it all to the challenges.

We need a poll, for votes only and no comments, to determine what the masses actually think because we all know only those that can be bothered reply to arguement threads like this.

Quote from Rivid31 on November 20, 2007, 11:33 am

youme wrote:

We need a poll, for votes only and no comments, to determine what the masses actually think because we all know only those that can be bothered reply to arguement threads like this.

Agreed

Quote from youme on November 20, 2007, 11:40 am

Rivid31 wrote:

youme wrote:

We need a poll, for votes only and no comments, to determine what the masses actually think because we all know only those that can be bothered reply to arguement threads like this.

Agreed

Done

Quote from yikkayaya on November 20, 2007, 11:47 am

The difference between "every puzzle should include it" and "not a very good way of solving puzzles" is quite wide indeed