Quote from Bulska on November 20, 2007, 5:34 pm

What is portal tunneling? Is it the infinite falling by placing a portal above and below you?

if so then I really cant see the problem, it's really hard aiming while falling at that speed.

Quote from Rivid31 on November 20, 2007, 5:48 pm

Korjagun wrote:

Er, no, tunnelling is the trick where you place a portal while standing in "the middle" of the portal already, and backing out before the portal projectile hits the target wall so that you're essentially "moving" one end of the portal further and further through the level while not actually moving yourself.

is portal tunneling.

Quote from iamafractal on November 20, 2007, 7:03 pm

espen180 wrote:

Wall-Climbing: Exploit. Should not be included as a required solution because it's simply a glitch in the physics system. Cannot be avoided, but can be made useless by small ledges.

well that one is difficult enough thta i don't think it should be REQUIRED to solve a puzzle.

Quote:

Tunneling: Exploit. Should not be included as a required solution because it's an exploit based on portal travel time. Smart mappers will (if possible) take every effort to minimize the possibility of using this exploit.

i loved getting good at that and want to see more puzzles using it. shmitzchamber1's use of it was great. loved that.

Quote:

Door propping: Exploit. Should not be part of the required solution because it's a bug in the door. Smart mappers will include trigger_push entities which push physics props out of the doors before they close.

i don't mind that or any other tricks frankly.

i think that to say something is not allowed is to ignore exploring entirely new ideas and paths. let people be creative. if they can map it, the ninjas can solve it.

i'd rather have fun puzzles that challenge my mind especially with regards to figuring out portal tunneling, as an example, or putting things in doors, as another...

nothing is taboo when yoiu have the first amendment.

Quote:

But then again, that's just my opinion.

indeed.

Quote from taco on November 20, 2007, 11:21 pm

I totally disagree with the poll thread that was set up. The categories are screwed all to hell and having a poll on something THAT IS REQUIRED TO GET GOLD ON A MAP can NOT be an exploit.

And even if it wasn't required, you are not exploiting anything - relatively slow projectile speed is as much part of the portal gun as not taking fall damage is part of Chell's ability to land.

I started this thread without a poll on purpose; you might as well make another poll asking if flinging is a physics exploit.

The goal was to determine how people felt about it's use in common puzzle solving, not weather it is intended - because it is.

P.S. If you didn't get the idea, I think the poll thread should be closed.

Quote from Crooked Paul on November 20, 2007, 11:34 pm

Well, we've got a thread five pages long on whether it is or is not an exploit. I think the time is long past for anyone to claim "I'm obviously right and anyone who disagrees is an asshole."

Neither camp is going to totally convince the other. But maybe this discussion is still useful because it shows that tunneling is controversial. Portal mappers need to know that it should be treated with care. I doubt that this debate is likely to produce any conclusions beyond that.

Quote from taco on November 20, 2007, 11:43 pm

Crooked Paul wrote:

Well, we've got a thread five pages long on whether it is or is not an exploit. I think the time is long past for anyone to claim "I'm obviously right and anyone who disagrees is an asshole."

I'm not saying that at all, I'm saying we aren't focusing on the issue.

The question can't be about weather it is an exploit - it can't be. The question should be about how people feel about it's use as a puzzle solution (ie. it should only be used as an alternative puzzle solving method, it is fair game, etc.)

Quote from indy on November 21, 2007, 12:09 am

I think the fact that theres 5 pages of arguments about it, says thats its defiantly a questionable technique.

personally as a map maker, It annoys me that I have to alter my puzzle to avoid this from happening.

on the other hand its never good to force one single solution on to players.

as for wall climbing using physics objects, I belive this is an inherent problem of the havok physics engin and cant be fixed by valve alone.

I remember using the gravity gun in hl2 and an object to super jump onto roofs etc, so this problem has been around since before portal was made.

Quote from espen180 on November 23, 2007, 11:53 am

The func_clip_vphysics entity is great for preventing wallclimbing.

Quote from mikebolt on November 24, 2007, 4:22 pm

If tunneling wasn't intended, then how does valve expect us to complete chamber fifteen in 54 seconds?