Quote from Ralen on February 3, 2008, 5:32 pm

taco wrote:

The thing that really affected my level of enjoyment is quite simple: the map felt like it wanted to kill me.

I agree with this. In my personal opinion, maps are better when you can look around and take stock of what you have at your disposal, what your objectives are, and tinker around with how to pull off what you need to do in order to reach your goal. This map obscured the goal a lot of the time, and since failure typically meant isntant death, it detracted from the enjoyability.

taco wrote:

I didn't bother to think that you would break the Portal Convention of cubes being destroyed in toxic water.

I don't believe any conventions were broken here. In Portal, toxic water doesn't ever destroy cubes, they just sink to the bottom. In most cases though, you're only given 1 or 2 cubes at a time, and the toxic water is fairly deep, so stacking them is never a viable option. In this map though, once I saw that I had about a dozen cubes at my disposal, it didn't take long before I thought to make some platforms for myself to stand on in the water.

Quote from Cargo on February 3, 2008, 6:38 pm

I think if there had been a cube already in the water, to show that it's shallow, and that you can put cubes down without losing them, it would have helped the player along a bit.

Quote from Fusion on February 3, 2008, 8:31 pm

With the cubemaps I tried what Remmiz suggested and they still didn't seem to want to work. I'll hopefully fix this problem in the near future but it doesn't seem to detract from the gameplay of the map.

I see what you mean about the consequence in most cases being death. Since I built the map I knew the intended way to solve all the puzzles and I could just run through it not realising that someone who had not played the map before would die.
In my next map I'll use more buttons and doors than hazard water and turrets. But I consider my map different to others in that the consequence is death, not failure to solve a puzzle. If this is a good thing or a bad thing is a matter of opinon.

Edit: and well done to infernet on the awesome speedrun. The spawning with no portal gun is unintended and it only started to happen recently. I'll try to fix the problem. In the meantime you can use the console to give you the gun

Quote from iamafractal on February 3, 2008, 11:25 pm

taco wrote:

Here is a link to the thread that talks about getting your cube maps to work properly (I personally do what Remmiz posted).

http://forums.thinking.withportals.com/making-cubemaps-and-bonus-map-scripts-work-together-t517.html

As for the water, I suppose you could make a sign or something, or rework that very small section.

i liked how it was done in hetzchase_nailway... just put one cube in the water. the player will get the idea.

Quote from iamafractal on February 3, 2008, 11:37 pm

[spoiler]ok so i just tried your map. i just feel that whatever kind of flings you're supposed to do at the beginning should be proceeded with an introductory room that teaches users the technique you are introducing in a safe environment.

you will note that in portal, the original game, the developers went out of their way introducing a concept, such as the double fling, in a safe, quick to repeat the concept, environment.

if you were to make any changes to your map (besides glass at the exit door instead of an emancipation grid) i would add those introductory rooms.

i still don't really have any idea what kind of flinging you're expecting me to do in that first area at all, to be honest. and as for those pits, its easy to just get trapped in them. so i guess i don't see the point, and like other players, i just decided to tunnel past all that, shaking my head. i really felt like i was missing out on learning some new technique or other.

i liked the turret area. right after i got to that i wondered what would happen if i rebuilt the cube maps... i did this and well i had to restart the level all over. boo.

i'm like some others here. i don't know what was wrong with the cubemaps. i don't know what cubemaps are. and i don't know what rebuilding them did. actually i seem to remember it having to do with reflections or something.[/spoiler]

Quote from DanielMC on February 5, 2008, 12:06 am

Man i love this map! Really cool The turrets section is really cool

[spoiler]i dont know if the cubes were to eliminate the turrets. I only used them to get to the acid pool and place a portal (placing a turret there too was just mean ). I eliminated the turrets one by one before discovering the cubes xD[/spoiler]

Quote from Hyakkidouran on February 5, 2008, 11:21 am

Nice map, but it sure feels like it wants to kill you. But to me it felt like challenge rather than annoyance.

Even if, [spoiler]I definitely portal tunnelled the first fling, which is easy to understand but too tough to execute.[/spoiler]

Also, breaking the convention of "goo kills cube" is bad.
For doing "you can't go but cube can" liquid, you can create electrified water using water+bright blue lights+tesla arcs (thanks Hurricaaane for this) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUeq13xVKQU

Stangely, I thought immediatly to put cubes in the water, probably because I already eliminated all other solutions in my mind. But still, this is bad.

But my impression on this map is globally good.
The connection between the beginning and end with the catcher is always a nice touch.

Quote from Phil on February 5, 2008, 11:33 am

First off, thank you Fusion, for making this map. It was a high quality, professional looking map, with new several new ideas brought out. Like other's have said, I liked the idea of seeing the exit from the begining then looping around the map in a "one way loop".

The map did have some problems though, in my opinion. I agree with what Hyakkidouran and taco said.
The objectives/exits weren't clear on most puzzles, and the puzzles were frustrating. [spoiler]The first puzzle killed me so much while trying to solve it that it became frustrating, so I just portal tunneled it, which made me feel like I cheated. I still don't understand the intended solution.
The puzzle with the turrets, as people said, it wasn't clear the boxes were even there until after few dozen frustrating deaths.
And the under water cube stacking puzzle was frustrating too, because I had to kill myself to even see the exit of the puzzle (which shouldn't be how it is.) I couldn't figure out how to do it with portals, so I went back and got cubes to stack in the water. I see now that was intentional, but at the time I felt it was again cheating the map just to get by the puzzle.
Also, the final puzzle was tediuous trial and error. Not puzzle solving and not much fun.[/spoiler]

I know this post sounded really negative, and I'm sorry for that, but I do mean to be constructive. Looking forward to your next map, and thanks again!

edit: added spoiler tags

Quote from iamafractal on February 5, 2008, 11:35 am

there have already been several maps that allow you to throw cubes into goo without killing them.

as i said, as long as you show it, its fine.

here's a typical example of cubes and goo.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=MtO85-gnSmA