Congratulations. Definately one of the best maps done here, if not the best. It's great when you can add to the original strategies with new twists. Really enjoyed getting the cube up to speed and blasting it straight down the hall at the turrets. Thanks for putting this together.

Great map, it was extremely enjoyable to play through. I encountered a glitch at the end of the crusher puzzle (which, interestingly, I arbitrarily launched myself at the correct time without even noticing the crusher). If you back out of the door you get trapped - the good ol' walk halfway in and back out trap. Not a huge deal though... I also had fun climbing around in the "second floor" of the room before the last chamber.

Very well done map. Great Visuals and the puzzle level difficulty was about perfect for this contest. Puzzle designs in other maps that are too easy or too hard won't be seriously considered even if visuals are amazing. The puzzle in your map were near perfect.

There is one thing in the map design that I did not like, and its one of those small things that I call a "paper cut" design, something that not serious but is really really really annoying. Its when a map is designed to include subtle elements to intentionally frustrate the player. Here is a screen shot of what I am talking about.

http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/57780 ... D9396A109/

The pile of garbage placed on the floor is put at that specific spot to block 90% of the laser shot possibilities, so the player has to fuss around to find that 10% where they can thread the needle. That's just not a good design. If you want a player to do, or not do, something, make it a clear\clean design; don't tease players with frustrating possibilities that requires them to spin and spin as until the find a small awkward\narrow angle to the target area. The only exception is alternate solutions, alternate solution can be designed to have much more precise target areas for success, because player can always revert back to a easier, and less frustrating solution. The main solution shouldn't be designed to tease and frustrate the player.

That issue aside, this ranks in the top three maps I've played, and clearly one or more notches above other entries.

JackSafari wrote:
Very well done map. Great Visuals and the puzzle level difficulty was about perfect for this contest. Puzzle designs in other maps that are too easy or too hard won't be seriously considered even if visuals are amazing. The puzzle in your map were near perfect.

There is one thing in the map design that I did not like, and its one of those small things that I call a "paper cut" design, something that not serious but is really really really annoying. Its when a map is designed to include subtle elements to intentionally frustrate the player. Here is a screen shot of what I am talking about.

http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/57780 ... D9396A109/

The pile of garbage placed on the floor is put at that specific spot to block 90% of the laser shot possibilities, so the player has to fuss around to find that 10% where they can thread the needle. That's just not a good design. If you want a player to do, or not do, something, make it a clear\clean design; don't tease players with frustrating possibilities that requires them to spin and spin as until the find a small awkward\narrow angle to the target area. The only exception is alternate solutions, alternate solution can be designed to have much more precise target areas for success, because player can always revert back to a easier, and less frustrating solution. The main solution shouldn't be designed to tease and frustrate the player.

That issue aside, this ranks in the top three maps I've played, and clearly one or more notches above other entries.

Thanks for catching that! That was totally unintentional and got past the previous playtesters. I'm sorry that it messed up your shots.

Community spotlight, 2011 Summer Mapping Initiative first place winner. Congrats ebola - the old school showing the new kids how it's done.

Congratulations. I'm definitely going to download this map and try it out. I have to say, just seeing the screenshot and reading these comments makes me intimidated to enter mapping contests. I wish they'd make a contest for beginners

Was very cool. Thumbs. In the final chamber I acted very stupid: I tried to have the laser go through all three relays and then end up in the laser catcher. I thought I should enter the last room, then shoot a portal at the funnel, but as I had only one shot, I thought the funnel should already be activated. What was wrong.

Congratulations. Especially because being in the special thanks list of the winner map makes me feel a little that I've achieved something in this contest after all..

By the way I've found two bugs but I've made somthing wrong and can't find the screenshots and I can remember only one of them: under the crusher the cube can sink in the floor. I might look for the other later.

I can only parrot what praise has been said. (I love the overgrown theme, as well )

I'm interested in how long it takes you to destroy/overgrow the chamber...I imagine you get pretty good as you go along, but it seems a daunting task to make the growth and destruction actually look good.
How much work did you put into "growing"/"destroying" this map?

--On another note: I used 3 cubes to create "stairs" in the last part of the last room up to a panel high enough on the wall so that I could place a portal, walk through it back into the main room, and place the opposite colored portal above the faith plate. Then, I used the faith plate to fling over to the exit elevator.

I imagine, as it has been mentioned, that the intended solution is using the excursion funnel. But I always enjoy a map that has multiple (sneaky) solutions, whether or not they were built in with intention.

Now I need to grow two more thumbs so I can give you four thumbs up.

I downloaded this because you won the competition, and I must say, it's a great map. I found a few unintended solution and played through your map using them. And was smart enough to record it. If you'd like me to, I wouldn't mind recording one that uses glitches (the filename doesn't say "glitchless" for no reason).

As far as praise and critique is concerned: the little pile of rubble (as mentioned earlier, by JackSafari) really annoyed me too, and even made me think I was using an unintended solution for a while. But the maps looked, and felt, really great. The puzzles took enough thinking, but once you were on the right path, were quite straightforward (which is a good thing). The sound was great, except for one thing: if you're fast enough to trigger a speech while another one is going on, the first one doesn't get cut out, which makes for a really annoying noise.

Anyway, keep making maps, you're good at it.

Great map dude and gratz btw all the cameras didn't looking on the player

http://steamcommunity.com/id/Demonz312/ ... 7395037088

Congrats!

Gratz! Celebratory image:

First, thank you everyone for your support. I am happy that you chose my map in the superb showing of maps.

BrainstoneX wrote:
Was very cool. Thumbs. In the final chamber I acted very stupid: I tried to have the laser go through all three relays and then end up in the laser catcher. I thought I should enter the last room, then shoot a portal at the funnel, but as I had only one shot, I thought the funnel should already be activated. What was wrong.

That is actually a rather common initial reaction of players. I think this is acceptable though, since it is so easy to reverse the state (reshoot the portals). I tried to make sure as many of my puzzle states are reversible, making it hard for the player to have to do rework.

NeemaE wrote:
I can only parrot what praise has been said. (I love the overgrown theme, as well )

I'm interested in how long it takes you to destroy/overgrow the chamber...I imagine you get pretty good as you go along, but it seems a daunting task to make the growth and destruction actually look good.
How much work did you put into "growing"/"destroying" this map?

--On another note: I used 3 cubes to create "stairs" in the last part of the last room up to a panel high enough on the wall so that I could place a portal, walk through it back into the main room, and place the opposite colored portal above the faith plate. Then, I used the faith plate to fling over to the exit elevator.

I imagine, as it has been mentioned, that the intended solution is using the excursion funnel. But I always enjoy a map that has multiple (sneaky) solutions, whether or not they were built in with intention.

Now I need to grow two more thumbs so I can give you four thumbs up.

First, it took around 2 days (about 30 hours) to apply the final aesthetics polish. When the gameplay was finalized, all the textures were still using the clean set as it was easiest set to judge gameplay with. There was also no lighting. I went pass by pass to change it from retexturing, to cutting bsp, to meshing, to lighting, post-processing, and so on. Overall, I'd say it took about 10 hours to concept the design, 20 hours to block out, 10 hours to add gameplay elements, 50 hours to iterate gameplay, 30 hours to complete aesthetics, 5 hours to light. So around 125-135 hours total. I also use a list of design features I wanted to hit, and checked it every few builds. For example, I wanted the player to have a vista/view for each chamber where he can sit back and examine the whole puzzle. These views should be on the critical path and visually enticing. You should see nearly all of the elements from that spot and usually in the middle of the room. I can post more of the design processes I went through if people want, but that's it for now.

On your second comment, I usually don't take out alternate solutions if they do not detract from the fun of the level overall. I find that alternate solutions greatly enhances a level, especially if you think you can get the player to believe he's outsmarted the designer.

Demonz312 wrote:
Great map dude and gratz btw all the cameras didn't looking on the player

http://steamcommunity.com/id/Demonz312/ ... 7395037088

I believe that security cameras don't follow the player until the cold boot. I wanted to follow Valve's visual themes, so I left them offline. Maybe it was a bit jarring?

I will go back and fix the issues you guys pointed out. It seems that players need a little more guidance on the final step of the last chamber. I don't mind the player detracting from the intended solution, but I do think that it is way too easy to die when players attempt to use the aerial faith plate.

ebola wrote:
I believe that security cameras don't follow the player until the cold boot. I wanted to follow Valve's visual themes, so I left them offline. Maybe it was a bit jarring?

When I played the campaign, I didn't notice that until a few chambers in. I found it more spooky than being watched, because it made me feel like I was stuck there, completely alone.

Anyway, here are my thoughts:

I think most of the praise I could give has already been covered. Everything is of such high quality from start to finish. Any bugs are insignificant in the context of the whole level. You seem to be eager to fix all the little cosmetic problems people have found, and I think after a few passes you could call this map close to perfection.

If I have one complaint, it is that the level gets a bit tiring as it goes on. It's a problem that Valve faced as well. In the commentary, they explain how playtesters experienced "puzzle exhaustion" (I think that's the term they used) during Wheatley's series of chambers. To address the issue, they included the scene where he gives you a "tour" of the facility as you ride in a funnel, so that the player could have a break.

Because the broken chamber setting is run by pre-recorded messages, you wouldn't be able to implement a break in the same way, but I think it's something worth considering. I know it would take some work, but when you've crafted something this good, I'm sure you'd be capable of doing something impressive.

EDIT: I played it again, and I realized that I might have been under the impression that it was longer than it really was. I played all the contest winners in a row, then came here to leave some comments on them. So in reality, the "puzzle exhaustion" was due to me playing your test immediately after Edifice, which is also a bit lengthy. Still, I think a short break might add a cherry of immersion on top of the ice cream sundae that is this map, if you'll excuse such a ridiculous analogy.

I haven't actually played this map before today -- I was alerted to its existence by the fact that it won the contest (congrats!).

I did feel it was too easy though. Although it required backtracking as you discovered each section of the map, I didn't really have any "aha!" moments or points where I had to sit down and think; the solutions all seemed obvious. :-/

That said, the quality of the map was well-done visually, and did comprise a good diversion. Thanks!

I'm a bit stuck on the chamber with the first excursion funnel and laser. Like someone earlier said, the solution's probably going to hit me like a sack of bricks, but oh well...

Congrats! Very nice map, great work!

Here's my video walkthrough:

ppCWpSFmPWQ

Loved it. Good detail, and REALLY LONG! Which I appreciate, because I hate when, on a really good, but short map, you finally figure things out, then BAM it's over. This one was the opposite of that, everytime I thought "Ok this has GOT to be the last puzzle..." There'd be atleast one more!

Did find a spot where you could get stuck with no chance of proceeding, or going back, and would have to either load an earlier save, or no clip.

"Just a minor glitch..."
Just a minor glitch but at the spot where you have the two cubes that you have to hit the buttons with simultaneously, and there is a big crusher in the way (that moves out of the way when you hit both buttons). If you go past the crusher, but NOT through the big door, the door will close, and the crusher will come back down, and NOT kill you. Once this happens the door stays locked, and you can't jump past/over the crusher. You are now stuck and have to reload an earlier save.

The map crashed in the middle: It showed an arrow pointing down with a purple tint on the top and a green tint on the bottom. I have no idea what happened.