Surely, you do not like semi-challenging puzzles? Or flinging? Areas with new physics behavior that changes your Portal strategies? Of course not; nobody does! Terrible stuff. But if you wanted to waste your time on such things. . .

. . .then try this WIP version of "Thinking outside the Cube".

dload.php?action=filefile_id=152

• 3 areas, 13+ challenges. (have about 18 challenges planned)
• above-average difficulty (too early in development to state "very challenging", but be warned)
• introducing new physics behavior (at least I havent seen it in a Portal map yet) (NOT gravity-related)
• new GLADOS voices/commentary (I got tired of reusing the old stuff)
• occasional music by The Hamster Alliance to set the mood.
• first in a series

IMPORTANT NOTE: this map will fall flat on its face if you do not put the REQUIRED surfaceproperties scripts into your portal/portal/scripts directory. (They are in the ZIP). Sadly, I can bundle everything else into the map itself, but for some reason it refuses to use the surfaceproperties files that are bundled within the bsp. Only the Hammer deity (Thor?) knows why. . .but if someone could tell me how to do this, I would appreciate it.

As of WIP, the lighting is not to my satisfaction (later chambers dont have quite as much atmosphere as the earlier ones). And man. . .there NEVER seems to be enough time in the day to finish every texture/realism detail I want. . . . .and some missing puzzles at the end are needed to fully justify the "companion cube" you get later on. . . but it is certainly time to get more public feedback beyond my existing testers.

What I would appreciate from you guys:

• This series is meant to be difficult without becoming confusing/irritating; I dont intend to "hold your hand" all the time but. . . if something is too confusing for you or not clear enough, let me know.

• I tried to hit the right "feel/humor" of GLADOS commentary. Let me know how I did. If you have other ideas for phrases that GLADOS could/would say in this map or in certain situations, please let me know (ie not just funny stuff, I want it to sound like something she would ACTUALLY say). I'll gladly give you credit if I add it in this (or later) map in the series.

• Bonus maps/challenges are coming. Some idea of speed runs or min portal counts would be appreciated (you speed-run guys are simply amazing; I have no idea how fast an expert could do this once you get the hang of it!)

• I personally feel most maps are too short; this one has some more puzzles coming (just dont have enough time to do all I can think of!). I definitely have a plan that requires a map after this one, but I am not sure if I will break this map into 2 or not. . . would like your opinions.

Thanks!
xitooner

&&

Downloading now (reserving this post for later)

EDIT:

It's a good map. The whole surface thing was pretty neat.

I think the problem with the second room (the one in the first screenshot below) is that it's just too cluttered. When I first walked in, I just kept looking around the room, not knowing where to start. There are signs to help, as mentioned, but it's a huge room, with a lot of visual obstructions. The player isn't really lead anywhere in particular when he/she enters the room, in my opinion.

Apart from that, great concept and general aesthetic appeal. I liked the glados comments, too =)

Finally got some images downloaded for the various areas:

Downloading now, looks really good in screenshots

second part it's nonsense for me, i waited for a sphere, ball, or something like that.. Can't understand what is supposed to do.

I'll give it a whirl when it's mapping break time.

infernet89 wrote:
second part it's nonsense for me, i waited for a sphere, ball, or something like that.. Can't understand what is supposed to do.

Second part of what? the second puzzle? The second room? The second area? (ie you solved the 1st 4 puzzles in the first 2 rooms and left the first area?) Need more description to be helpful.

For the puzzles. . .there is always a set of dots telling you where to need to get to, and there is often the same set of dots telling you where to start to do it. (Like for the 2nd puzzle in the large room). I tried to be helpful, but you must look around, and sometimes you must experiment (it IS a new environment, after all, and you need to learn what you are capable of).

No need to wait for anything, anytime; there is a cube already present in all cases you need one; all you have to do is get it to where its needed, when you need it. If you destroy it, the cube-maker will give you a new one. I am pretty sure there is no fizzler that destroys a cube, so no worries there. The energy-ball puzzle starts only when you push the button; YOU decide when to start (and although you can watch the ball to see whats up, you will probably need to explore a little to figure out all the details involved to get the ball in the catcher. And it has dots to tell you where to start too. . .)

Wow the screens look amazing.

Nacimota wrote:
I think the problem with the second room (the one in the first screenshot below) is that it's just too cluttered. When I first walked in, I just kept looking around the room, not knowing where to start. There are signs to help, as mentioned, but it's a huge room, with a lot of visual obstructions. The player isn't really lead anywhere in particular when he/she enters the room, in my opinion.

Apart from that, great concept and general aesthetic appeal. I liked the glados comments, too =)

Thanks for the comments!

I agree; its one complicated room, and I've been struggling with how to best to handle it. In the end (and I REALLY dont want to do this) I could break it apart into seperate rooms; one for each puzzle. But that actually hurts some of the existing puzzles some too. . .like I dont want you to have to backtrack through 3 areas to reach the exit back in the 1st room, for instance.

I think most of the room flows once you get started though, and then it becomes more obvious what to do; if I can just get you to the start of the initial puzzle (the drop where you gain momentum for the jump), I think things might be good enough. So how about this:

1) An arrow on the floor pointing down the glass stairs; located where you come into the room.
2) Some scrawlings right at the end of the glass platform, that illustrates what to do / where to put the portals.

Well it all looks fun, but I'm in the same boat as some others, ths second room is quite the head scratcher. I managed to get inside the area with the turret on the wall to the left when you first walk in, but I don't know what to do there yet. I don't know how to get to the turret and ball shooter and I don't know how to get a cube to the button up there.

It looks like I need to get to the small button near the ceiling first, but I haven't managed that either.

All that confusion in room 2 after I spent forever in room 1 getting to the door leading to chapter 2 only to find that it doesn't open yet.

Edit:
OK, now I'm making some progress I got up to the small button near the ceiling, but it turns out I wasn't supposed to go there first, at least I know how to get there now. Then I noticed the thing that I should've noticed first(my fault I guess): the wide fizzler on the wall is cube-friendly. D'oh! So I've gotten up to the place with a turret, a button, and a ball shooter. I'll post more as I make more progress, assuming I do make more progress.

On a side note I noticed that if I am on the button next to where the turret up there was then I can just barely get a portal back onto the lower part where the cube is now sitting on the previous lower button to deactivate the fizzler, not sure if that really makes things easier on me or not.

Edit(again):
OK now I've beaten it, all of it. I must say that the confusion of part1-room2 was the biggest challenge. Although I did feel a great sense of accomplishment after figuring that part out. Sure there's a puzzle here or there that made me wonder if I'd solved it as intended, but there wasn't anything else that had me stumped for more than a minute or so. I think it really all comes down to me not recognizing that the fizzlers are cube friendly.

I'd say great job on the puzzles, they made me think even if they didn't stump me for minutes on end.
The music is well placed, especially in the second chapter it felt like I really was breaking rules.

And finally a little gripe: At the very end we lose the companion cube to a fizzler after taking it through several cube-friendly fizzlers. You mentioned "more to come" so maybe in the long run we aren't going to lose the cube there, but if that is to be the last goodbye to the beloved companion cube I'd like to send it off in style with an incenerator. That's just my two cents.

Just thought of one more question: what was the purpose of the cube in the first room of part 1?

Adair wrote:
Well it all looks fun, but I'm in the same boat as some others, ths second room is quite the head scratcher.

Well, its sounding more and more like I am experiencing the same thing most mappers do; people dont always see/do things the way I do. When I work on it for so long. . . it all seems so logical and obvious. . .but of course, it really isnt. For some people, the exploring of the area is a fun thing, but for others, its not. This room is DEFINTELY geared towards people who like to explore. (and from your commetns, you are clearly puzzling it out one piece at a time).

Here was the way I "planned it"; hopefully this will help everyone. I will put it in spoilers, so you have a choice. . .

The initial room is intended to get you familiar with the frictionless environment. Honestly, nothing in there is critical except killing the turret near the middle, and an idea on how to do frictionless flinging, etc (thats why there is a ramp in taht room, etc). Its purely a learning area; but one where you do the experimenting yourself; even with other NPC objects. And although you can see the exit is above you, there should be no way available to you to reach it at this time. Once you get the hang of frictionless flinging, you know what you need to leave the room past the line of turrets. Then the real problems start.

||2nd room; you are dumped more or less in the center of the room. You just did puzzle #1, and in looking around you can see a #2 high on the wall (with a cube-friendly sign to let you know the fizzler is not a problem); so figuring out how to get there is next. Looking around more, you would see ANOTHER #2 which is far more accessible. Thats the starting place for puzzle#2; its where you go to get momentum, using a frctionless technique thats a little more advanced than you saw in the other room. Once you see how to do gain momentum, I figured you would see how to use it to fling yourself across the room and solve #2. (There is a way to carry the cube over at the same time, but its not required; there are ways to get the cube up to the button once you are there).

With the cube on the button with the fizzler off, you are ready to work on #3 (looking around, you see a #3 just above you). Now I didt intentionally leave THIS problem with no other labels; I wanted it to be more of a challenge. But if you look around, there is really only one frictionless ramp that isnt labelled for a puzzle number, so I figured folks would work it out. Using it, and placing your portall just right, you can fly a looonngg way up over the head of the turret guarding the #3 area. To tell the truth, its my favorite frictionless fling.

After getting rid of the turret, now you have to figure out how to get the glass wall to permanently stay open (you can see it opens when you step on/off the button); you'll need the cube from below. Once thats done, you are able to fire the energy ball for puzzle #4.

Puzzle #4 is a race with the energy ball, and it NOT expected for you to see everything at a glance; you need to travel the race path and figure it out. You hit the switch; it fires the energy ball; you can do it every 5 seconds or so. But if you watch it go, there is a gate stopping the ball from being caught. Your job is to get through the frictionless obstacle course fast enough to BEAT the ball around the room, and hit the switch that opens the gate for the ball to get through. Your starting point is labelled with 4-dots and the switch that opens the gate has 4 dots; those should give you hints about which paths are needed. With frictionless surfaces, you can REALLY move around that room, and shooting some portals at that speed can be a challenge; along the way you will end up flung way up to that glass ledge with another timed switch that will open a gate to let you proceed farther to get to the puzzle-solving gate. Do it right. . . and the door to the exit will open (indicator lights willl show it).

Note that its is expected that you will fail/ltry this one many times while experimenting; its a lot of orchetrated movement in a fairly short time. Thats why its fairly easy to portal youself back up to the #4 starting point from anywhere in the room

Once solved, now you have to figure out where to place portals in room#2 and room#1 such that you can get enough momentum to get yourself flung up to the exit using the angled wall in room#1. (Hint: I just said its fairly easy to portal youself back up to the #4 starting point from anywhere in the room) You can room#1 via the rollerball area, or straight from the angled wall, with a little more work.||

Hope that helps. . . and I hope it makes more sense once you've made a run-through.

Adair wrote:
Edit(again):
OK now I've beaten it, all of it. I must say that the confusion of part1-room2 was the biggest challenge. Although I did feel a great sense of accomplishment after figuring that part out. Sure there's a puzzle here or there that made me wonder if I'd solved it as intended, but there wasn't anything else that had me stumped for more than a minute or so. I think it really all comes down to me not recognizing that the fizzlers are cube friendly.

I'd say great job on the puzzles, they made me think even if they didn't stump me for minutes on end. The music is well placed, especially in the second chapter it felt like I really was breaking rules.

Thanks! Sorry about that initial confusion; I definitely got to work on that; if you have any suggestions on how to make it easier, please let me know.

Quote:
And finally a little gripe:

Yes indeed; there will eventually be an incinerator, or you will leave the map with the cube; I am not sure. When this map truly ends, I intend for it to be a lead-in to the next map, and you will be in BTS area as a setup for the next map in the series.

The missing puzzles at the end are going to have more cube-interaction; whats there enow is decidedly weak (which gave me the idea for the "you do all the work while the cube just sits around" comment). Even as it is though, I am beginning to think I've built up the cube commentary to the point that I either have to give it a REALLY good send-off, or I must carry it off into the sunset forever. . .

Quote:
Just thought of one more question: what was the purpose of the cube in the first room of part 1?

Nothing at all; just a plaything for you. I wanted you to have something traditional that you could play with on a frictionless surface (that didnt want to kill you first). If you wanted to, you could have used the cube to do "frictionless bowling" with the turrets, or could bring it into room#2 and have a cube on both buttons (not required, really). I once tried "cube surfing" too. . .didnt work too well.

Also, the RollerMines are mostly there to introduce them in the series, althgoh they can be quite an irritation if youdo the map that way. I expect to use them again in a later puzzle in this series (maybe in this map), and since there was no formal introduction to them in Portal itself, I did it this way.

i am on stage 3 "allez hop"? and i have yet to figure it out, please help? lol all the other tests were "easy" once i figured everything out. thats not to say i solved them really fast. hell no they; took awhile to figure out and understand the fling/sliding thing, but they were awesome. your design and everything is really good. and what an orriginal concept. oh yeah and i must make a note here:
MOST AWESOME GLaDOS voice in any map i've played so far. most are 'horrible' and although this isn't a "perfect" glados replica, its damn close (considering you don't have Ellen McLain doing the voice for you. and i can even hear the sarcasm/belittlingness of her voice. very good.

what i most like about the ramp/sliding part of them map was, even when i was failing horribly i was still having fun figureing it out. what a great way to make even failure fun! don't change it. don't cut it up into multiple puzzles. the large multiple sliding areas are great!

anyway. maybe i'm just missing something on test #3 not sure. but i'm back to work on it.

edit: aw ok. last puzzle wasn't so hard once i figured out wth i had to do :-p the "FIRST" part of room #3 was very hard to get. but once i figured it out. the last couple peices were very fun :-p

all and all. man i give this shit a 11 out of 10!
only thing i could say is i did notice a couple of places that seemed to "leak" or what we used to call HoM (hall of mirrors) too tired or i would post screen shots. maybe later :-p

I'm sorry, xitooner, but I broke your map. I have no idea what would cause that, but it was cool.

I like it so far. I got to that puzzle in the video, then had to quit, but I'm looking forward to finishing it.

Deviant wrote:
I'm sorry, xitooner, but I broke your map. I have no idea what would cause that, but it was cool.

I like it so far. I got to that puzzle in the video, then had to quit, but I'm looking forward to finishing it.

THATS STILL THERE? I've seen it before, but it was never as wild-looking
as that for me; congratulations (I think)! I usually fell into nothingness!

I THOUGHT I'd fixed it; I think it has to do with the angled wall with the
portal near the bottom; the lower edge of your portal gets very close to
the edge of the map, and since its not parallel to the wall. . .some weird
effects happen and you somehow slip out. There is definitely
something "odd" that happens on the upper and lower edges of a portal
that I have seen in other experiments. I thought making the wall thicker there had made it go away, but I guess not.

Quote:
all and all. man i give this shit a 11 out of 10!
only thing i could say is i did notice a couple of places that seemed to "leak" or what we used to call HoM (hall of mirrors) too tired or i would post screen shots. maybe later :-p

rellikpd, your whole post is the kind that makes all those hours I spent
making this worthwhile! Thanks! If you should spot those leaks again
sometime, let me know.

Just finished it, and I have to say I am awestruck. Original, top notch design and creativity, and that was definitely the best custom GLaDOS I have heard so far.

I love that you incorporated the frictionless surfaces seamlessly with the interesting flings. I have to admit the floors threw me for a loop at first, but once I learned to jump I found them to be really enjoyable.

The second room was extremely confusing at first, but after completing it I felt a great sense of accomplishment, and I really like how it is set up. I see no reason to split it up, and really hope you don't.

I was kinda disappointed that the final room ended so quickly, given how easy it was, but I was happy to see it will continue.

I didn't notice many things to criticize at all, and I'm pretty nit-picky. The GLaDOS voices overlap and are intelligible if you move too quickly through the map. Also, the things "protecting" the cube in the first room just kinda spin and hop in place on the frictionless surface, never able to chase me. Lastly and probably least important, the fizzler in the energy ball dispenser part of the second room didn't give me the satisfying fizzle I was expecting when I threw the turret through it. I didn't experience what Deviant did, and I did exactly the same thing.

Great job all in all. Instantly a favorite of mine. I really can't wait to see more.

I went spoiler tag happy in this post

xitooner wrote:
And although you can see the exit is above you, there should be no way available to you to reach it at this time. Once you get the hang of frictionless flinging, you know what you need to leave the room past the line of turrets.

I actually worked out a way to get up to the door to chapter 2 before it ever occured to me that I could frictionless fling past the turrets in room 1. But its not easy so you may not need to change anything. I'll explain it just so you know how its done.
first move the cube, then...
1] place orange portal up against the wall on the tilted panel
2] place blue portal on the floor somewhere
3] go through portals in a way that allows you to land on the tilted panel
4] from tilted panel shoot blue on the highest part of the wall
5] go through portals and...
6] while falling from the blue reshoot blue on the floor below you
7] fly out of orange in general direction of the chapter 2 door, but...
8] in midair direct yourself to land on the observation room window ledge
9] shoot blue onto floor directly below you
10] fall into blue trying to fall close to the far side of the portal
11] fly out of orange holding forward the whole time
(if you do 10 and 11 just right you will actually hit the side of the platform where the chapter 2 door is)
12] hit the side of the platform and press back a bit so you can shoot blue below you
13] fall into blue and fly out of orange holding forward
...that should get you up there

Quote:
After getting rid of the turret, now you have to figure out how to get the glass wall to permanently stay open (you can see it opens when you step on/off the button); you'll need the cube from below.

At first I was going to try getting the cube for the button(and in my previous post I described a sneaky way to get it really easily), but then I thought about it and ended up starting the ball race by first pressing the small button from a maximum distance and then stepping on the big button for half a second to let the ball out.> Quote:

Puzzle #4 is a race with the energy ball... Your starting point is labelled with 4-dots and the switch that opens the gate has 4 dots... Along the way you will end up flung way up to that glass ledge with another timed switch

||I never did figure out how to use the long curving slide. Here's how I got to the small button on the glass ledge:
1] stand on big button that lowers the glass
2] shoot blue to the far side of the room onto a patch of wall with a grated ledge sticking out
3] shoot orange on wall near big button you were just on
4] after getting the ball going go through portals and stand on grated ledge
5] look right and shoot blue onto tilted panel
6] run and jump off grated ledge at a 45 degree angle holding forward as you fall
7] shoot orange on ground below you as you fall while holding forward to enter orange portal at an angle
8] fly out of blue and land on glass ledge.

Edit: I just figured out you can do almost the same thing by:
1] put cube on button to hold glass down
2] shoot orange across room onto tilted panel
3] jump off the tall ledge at the ball start position at an angle
4] hold forward while falling so that you can shoot blue below and fall in at an angle
5] fly out of orange up to glass ledge

I also did it the intended way which is simultaneously the funnest and most difficult; odd||

Quote:
Once solved, now you have to figure out where to place portals in room#2 and room#1 such that you can get enough momentum to get yourself flung up to the exit using the angled wall in room#1.

I'll have to try this method out since I used the fling described at the beginning of the post.

^Edited^

Adair wrote:
I actually worked out a way to get up to the door to chapter 2 before it ever occured to me that I could frictionless fling past the turrets in room 1. But its not easy so you may not need to change anything. I'll explain it just so you know how its done.

Wow. Really; wow. I had been pretty sure many of those things you did werent possible; I never could pull them off. I will have to come up with a suitable comment for GLADOS to make just for anyone working so hard to get up to the exit area before the doors are open. You certainly deserve SOME recognition for that!

And I knew you could get up to the energy ball area without a cube, but I never dreamed you could get the ball past that glass without a cube and still have any chance at all of reaching the final switch! Of all you did, thats the only one I think I'll have to investigate and try to prevent; I just dont want people skipping the 1st half of the race. Heck, I thought putting the switch up there so high would force people to use the long curving slide; thats why I did it! Oh well. . .

xitooner wrote:
I just dont want people skipping the 1st half of the race.

Err, one more thing:
If you put the cube on the button to hold the glass down you can then start the ball and jump directly into the glass chamber where the final small button is. Yes, you have to start the ball and once its out of the way you run toward the edge jump+crouch at the last possible moment before you would fall. You jump toward the hole on the side of the glass chamber holding forward the whole time and when you get there spin your view left so that you change your direction and you can just barely get the lip of the ledge there. The only reason I can think of to do this is a least portals or least steps challenge because it doesn't save time...unless someone was able to use the cube to deflect the ball in such a way to...I'm not even going to try.

Btw, In the second chapter there is a very tall glass wall to fling over. I only just now did it right. Before I was jumping down to the window ledge and then using a similar technique to whats described above(midair direction change) to jump around the glass. Sometimes I just don't see the intended solution first ...and when your map is called "Thinking Outside the Cube" its hard to know whether I'm supposed to break all the rules or just some of them.

http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=CPjbeNyQOYY