yeah. the 2nd part with the really tall glass window you have to jump over. i too jumped down on the window and was "going" to jump around the glass. but after i didn't get it on the first or 2nd try, and while looking around i figured it was most likely not the "intended" solution. so i did it the "right" way. but. if you want to preven anyone from skipping your glass-jump solution you might need to put some sort of prop or obstruction there to make it less likely/obvious that its possible.

cuz. keep in mind, i HATE strafe jumping around crap. but even i was going to try that first :-p

infernet89 wrote:
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=CPjbeNyQOYY

Good lord; you guys are scary! Its like looking at a whole other map. . . You did the entire frictionless room without doing hardly anything frictionless; I just cant have that. Obviously I'll have to review everything there in light of what you and Adair did. . .at the minimum:

Chapter 1

That wall section with the grate flooring below it in room #2 has to go, or be moved/lowered; its way too easy to abuse where it is

...remove the portable floor underneath the puzzle#2 entrance as well; it was mostly there for looks, but it never occured to me how easy that is to abuse. It obviously occured to you. . .(and I'll move the camera near there, before you jump on it and abuse THAT too)

. . . and I believe I have a solution for the high glass switch to limit it to access only via the intended path...

...Going to glass off the open side of the final switch for puzzle#4 in that room; glass doors will raise for 5-10 seconds whenever you hit the switch to let you have a nice exit. No more sneaking in the wrong way.

Chapter 2

• More glass to make sure the 1st two puzzles arent skipped. Skipping puzzles is a no-no.

• Stacking turrets and cubes? Geez! I'll think about that. . .its not the intended solution, but it definitely does "break the rules" just as much. I dont think I mind, but I may alter things slightly to make it more interesting after I try it myself.

Great job you guys!

Hey infernet89,

In your video, I noticed that your rollermines in the first room were a light purplish color; was there anything wrong with those? Did they behave like they had AI (ie try and kill you?) or did they just sit there? Do you have Portal only and not HL2? I am wondering if I need to extract those HL2 models and bundle them into my map as well. . .

xitooner wrote:
Hey infernet89,

In your video, I noticed that your rollermines in the first room were a light purplish color; was there anything wrong with those? Did they behave like they had AI (ie try and kill you?) or did they just sit there? Do you have Portal only and not HL2? I am wondering if I need to extract those HL2 models and bundle them into my map as well. . .

oh, it's just a missed texture, thei try to kill me as well.

Howewer, the only ninja solution i've founded it's the first on chapter 2, the other is THE ONLY WAY i can see.. I'm interested to see a video that show the right solution..

[Sorry 4 my bad english, i'm italian ^^]

infernet89 wrote:
Howewer, the only ninja solution i've founded it's the first on chapter 2, the other is THE ONLY WAY i can see.. I'm interested to see a video that show the right solution..

Yeah, I was holding back on a demo for Chapters 2 and 3 to allow people time to figure it out; but since you came up with a second way to reach the button in Chapter 2, I am now wondering if everyone is doing it your way (with the turrets+cube) instead. I will post a full solution in a few days.

There is a way to use portal-in-portal on the downward-angled walls to go over the fizzler and ultimately portal onto the wall next to the push-button. You can ignore the turrets completely if you want; object-wise, you just need the cube. And for a speed-run, I am pretty sure its faster than what you are doing now.

That an overview of my intended method, and its pretty obscure (although I saw some topics that show someone else is coming out with a map that will use this technique soon too). And since it really doesnt seem possible, its the reason I called the Chapter "Breaking the Rules". But your solution breaks the rules just as much, IMO. I was working trying your technique out last night, and I think I'll keep that just as it is. . .

Umm, okay now I'm interested to see xitooner's intended solution to the cube+turret stacking part in infernet89's video.
Here's how I do it:Bring cube to area under the angled wall/ceiling right next to the long horizontal fizzler. Place the cube sort of under and beside the fizzler so that I can stand on it and get a shot at the portalable ceiling on the far side of the fizzler. Shoot other portal on wall next to me, grab the cube and go through portals at an angle so that I can land on or over the glass wall over there.
...but there's a problem with this method. Sometimes I don't get the jump and end up not going over that glass wall, but the cube does fall over. I couldn't figure out how to proceed when my cube is trapped on the far side of that glass and so had to reload.

Obviously I'm the only one having this problem, but I'm pretty sure that the "frictionless surface" isn't working properly for me. I extracted the zip into my portal/portal directory, it put the map into my /maps directory and created a new /scripts directory for several of the text files, but when I run the map I can walk around on the "frictionless surface" as if it were a normal floor.
Edit: I've also just noticed that the rollermines in the first area have the pink and black checkerboard problem.

yeah i did it the same way Adair did it. i tried flinging/portal in portal stuff. but the (upside down) angled wall was pissing me off. i noticed that if you stand on the cube you can hit the ceiling panel across and jump through a wall portal. .

Ralen wrote:
Obviously I'm the only one having this problem, but I'm pretty sure that the "frictionless surface" isn't working properly for me. I extracted the zip into my portal/portal directory, it put the map into my /maps directory and created a new /scripts directory for several of the text files, but when I run the map I can walk around on the "frictionless surface" as if it were a normal floor.
Edit: I've also just noticed that the rollermines in the first area have the pink and black checkerboard problem.

If the game cant find the right surfaceproperty entry for the frictionless surface, it will default to a generic property; and what you describe would happen. Somewhere along the line, I expect something is messed up. But everything SOUNDS good from what you describe.

Can you describe the full path you now have to:
- your xi_totc_betav001.bsp file
- your surfaceproperties_manifest.txt file

That manifest file is the one that the game reads first; if you look into it (using notepad, or something) you can see it tells the names of all other files to look for. . .(and one of them needs to be surfaceproperties_xi_custom.txt)

Do you have Half-Life or did you just buy Portal? Thats one worry I have; somebody who doesnt have the all the Half-Life stuff might not be able to do the same things or reference the HL-specific models like the Rollermine. It might also affect the surfaceproperties part, I guess, but its hard to say since my own computer has Half-Life. I myself cant even test this aspect easily.

xitooner wrote:
Do you have Half-Life or did you just buy Portal? Thats one worry I have; somebody who doesnt have the all the Half-Life stuff might not be able to do the same things or reference the HL-specific models like the Rollermine. It might also affect the surfaceproperties part, I guess, but its hard to say since my own computer has Half-Life. I myself cant even test this aspect easily.

Alright, I'll level with you. I own half-life 2, but up until now I've been using a pirated copy of portal. I downloaded it back when I was still pissed over Valve cancelling the black box and didn't feel like paying $50 for several games I already owned.

Anyway, my conscience got the better of me, and I realized I've had way more than $20 worth of fun with Portal, so I purchased the game properly through steam, and am no longer having the aforementioned issues with the frictionless surface and roller mines.

But as I said, I have HL2 installed (and it wasn't installed in my pirated directory) so your concerns may be justified.

edited; decided to use a PM instead

Okay, I've played through the first level of the map, and I've got some constructive comments.

First of all, I did have to cheat (i.e. read your walkthrough) for a portion of the second room. Part of my confusion in the second room was actually caused by the dots. I saw the "2" dot panel right away, and spent the next several minutes looking for a "1" dot panel to start with. I never noticed the 1 dot panel in the first room, and mentally I considered the second room to be its own entity, rather than a continuation of the beginning. It took me quite a while to figure out where to start.

I never noticed a "cube-friendly" sign for the fizzler in the second room, but as it turns out it wasn't necessary, as it's entirely possible to get the cube where it needs to go just by using portals and buttons.

The fling past the turret at the 3 dot panel never would have occured to me, and I don't think having a second 3 dot panel at the appropriate frictionless surface would be spelling it out too much for the player.

I enjoyed the "obstacle course" as you put it, and although it took me several tries to get it right, it was never too frustrating. I always had a clear idea of what I was supposed to do, but just had to work on getting it right.

For the final fling, I had to use some portal tunneling in order to get my portals in the correct position one at the bottom of the roller-mine pit, and one at the energy ball creator. I don't know if that was your intended solution or not, but I couldn't think of any other way to get the portals in the right place.

I think your map was overall very ingenious, and I thought the initial "training" with the turrets was very effective and portal-like. Sliding around on the frictionless surface was fun, and I'd like to see it implemented in more ways.

Edit: Oh yeah, one more thing (for the first level, I haven't played the others yet). Immediately after the first fizzler when you're looking up at the 3 dot turret, GlaDOS's voice is unusually low in volume and difficult to hear.

Edit2: I've played the 2nd two levels now. A little tricky, but not overly challenging. With the glass wall just before the door to the third level though, it's possible to lose your companion cube on the other side, and then be stuck.

This thread looks like a declassified CIA file

Ralen wrote:
I never noticed a "cube-friendly" sign for the fizzler in the second room, but as it turns out it wasn't necessary, as it's entirely possible to get the cube where it needs to go just by using portals and buttons.

Yeah, one thing I've noticed is that many people do not want to fling with cubes in-hand, so I made sure there was a way to do it both ways.

I've been undecided about having dots at the #3 puzzles tart, but since so many people get confused in there, I am going to add it. As you said, it really doesnt spoil the puzzle. I'll check into the lower voice. . .there is one other voice I need to rephrase anyway, so I might as well do 2 while I am at it.

Oh yeah; sounds like you did the final fling just as I expected. If someone wanted to do it in least-portals mode, it is possible to make a run back into the first room past the turrets just from running/hopping fast enough. . .but you have to do it just right.

Thanks for all the useful comments! I plan to put out a version this weekend that is updated for many of the quirks people have found so far. . .

New version has been uploaded. (And hey; doing that reset my downnload count to zero! Bummer!)

Beta Version 2:
- Now includes demos for all areas. So now those of you who wanted to see my intended solution for the last puzzle of "Breaking The Rules" can now see.

• Much more signage to help people navigate area1's open room; make sure to look for descriptive scrawlings to tell you where to go, what to do, etc.

• Moved a few walls, eliminated at least 6 ways to avoid doing the intended puzzles (man, you playtesters are inventive!)

At this point I'll probably start working on those other 5 puzzles I have in mind, so I can get this moved to release. . .

At this point I'm just trying to avoid the intended solutions to see what I can get away with.

In the second room I can still entirely avoid some of the slides.
To get up to the first ledge I shot blue at the top of slide #3. Then went to the very corner of the room under the ball shooter and looked towards the first ledge, then looked down and shot orange as close to the first ledge as possible. I then ran forward, and jump+crouched into the orange portal making me fly out of blue far enough that I could replace blue at the bottom of slide #3 and use air control to go straight down back into blue. This sent me flying out of orange high enough to get onto the first ledge. I then got up to the ball shooter the normal way with slide #3. Then with the cube on the big button up there I shot orange onto the slanted platform across the room. I released the energy ball and jumped off the ledge as far as possible shooting blue at the small area at the bottom of slide #3 while falling and fell through it at enough of an angle to shoot out of orange up to the glass ledge button. I then solved the rest of the room as intended.

I'll probably play it again later to see if I can find anything else.

Adair wrote:
In the second room I can still entirely avoid some of the slides.
To get up to the first ledge I shot blue at the top of slide #3. Then went to the very corner of the room under the ball shooter and looked towards the first ledge, then looked down and shot orange as close to the first ledge as possible.....

Thats certainly a different approach. Of all the slides, #3 is certainly the most useful for doing extra tricks. But as long as you are using the slides in some way now, I dont think I mind.

Quote:
Then with the cube on the big button up there I shot orange onto the slanted platform across the room. I released the energy ball and jumped off the ledge as far as possible shooting blue at the small area at the bottom of slide #3 while falling and fell through it at enough of an angle to shoot out of orange up to the glass ledge button.

Thats a heck of a jump; I'll have to try that one out.

xitooner wrote:
Thats certainly a different approach. Of all the slides, #3 is certainly the most useful for doing extra tricks. But as long as you are using the slides in some way now, I dont think I mind.

I don't exactly use the slide there, I sort of fly over it without touching it so that I can drop straight down into the portal at the bottom. But whatever, details details.

I just watched all the demos you provided.

Demo 1: When I replayed just before watching I went back past the long line of turrets to get out of the second room for the first time and was going to tell you about it, but then realized you already know, before I was doing tunneling to get the portals in place for the final fling before Part 2.

Demo 2: You played this rather different than I have been playing it. First difference is once I fling over the first pool I line up a shot through the area with no glass to shoot the wall where you set up the fling to go over the really tall glass wall. Also if you get close enough to the edge there you can actually shoot the ceiling on the starting side of the pool to avoid having to tunnel.
It never occured to me to then portal back over to the starting area and use that low down-slanted ceiling to get past the turrets and solve the puzzle with the long horizontal fizzler. Interesting that the turrets take no notice of you when you're just popping your head out.

Demo 3: There's not nearly as much opportunity for variation on successfully solving these puzzles.

Edit: BTW, its possible to beat the entire map without any use of portal tunneling. I just figured that out.

just played the updated version, very good. although some of the "jumps" seem much harder now lol even though i was doing the orriginal map the "appropriate" way, i still don't know how to do the downward-angle area (right before area 3 (last area)) i still stand on the cube and shoot a portal over the fizzler to the ceiling across, then throw my cube in a different portal at an angle and jump through myself. please, someone post a video on the "proper" way to beat this area?

i personally think all the extra signage is babying us. and make the map look ugly (especially the race the ball sign) the rest look ok, i got a chuckle out of the ramp diagram on the first real slide-test

but personally i think its too much, the OTHER changes look great though, i think this map should be moved to the "released" section :-p as it seems complete.

unless you have more instore :-/ i mean if you want this as part of a map pack fine. but you could just realease 1 map at a time, and just make all your maps go into a maps/[sub-folder-name-here] and use .bns's

anyway. i'd love to see more and different maps from you. bring'em'on. even if they are just partial maps and stuff. i'd like to see your work.

edit: oh yeah, demos nevermind on the video request goes and watches the demos

2nd edit: still love this map, but after watching your "solution" for the down-ward-angled area with the fizzler (right before area 3) i think that part was lame, and i doubt many people woulda figured it out on their own, sorry. cuz EVERYTHING else is kick ass. also its funny watching other people solve stuff. lol some of the ways you portal through this seem SOOO inefficient, which is funny, cuz, since its YOUR map you'd think you'd take all the shortcuts (not hacks/ninjas/bypasses, just shortcuts)

anyway, still love the map :-p
but i hate that angled wall.

3rd edit: > Adair wrote:

Edit: BTW, its possible to beat the entire map without any use of portal tunneling. I just figured that out.

um... is it? for "sure"? i don't see how? but i guess that would depend on how you define "tunneling" by tunneling do you ONLY mean that you are standing "IN" a portal while shooting a different portal and when that portal lands you are still standing "IN" the orrginal portal? if so. maybe, to me tunneling is THAT definition PLUS: If you are standing outside (lets say an orange) portal and shoot a new orange portal to a far away wall then "QUICKLY" step through the orange before the (flying)-orange portal lands.... to me that is still tunneling. cuz you are creating portals to areas you wouldn't be able to get to/through just by walking/jumping/portaling, the only difference in these two definitions is that with the first you can stand "IN/ON" a wall, and with the 2nd you would need "some" sort of "place" to stand. other than that they work the same.

so i dunno.