What I was wondering, is there a way to create multiple exits.
like going down one elevator will do a change_level bonus_map.
whereas going down the default elevator will do a change_level next_map
sort of thing? I mean, how does that closing work anyway?

but like sleeper said all you have to do to get the level to change to another level is a trigger

Thank you for that info msleeper. Everyone was complaining about how it
was too linear, but I'd like to make a map set that had different levels
based on difficulty... although not chosen from the start as in Quake.

Hopefully this idea interests people, b/c I don't recall anyone showing this
ability off... regarding official maps and games and whatnot.

you could have "secret areas" as you say or you could have two different play routes:

map A - map B - map D - map F
-map C- map E -/

this brings whole new possibilities

Wroth wrote:
I'm so stealing this idea. Let's just say that I'm putting a certain 'moral choice' in one of my levels.

I think I'm going to aswell. although maybe not, I'll have to find some way to weave it in.

if your worried about file size...its going to be exactly the same amount that they would have to download anyway to get all the maps

with how big you can make makes in the hl2 era there really is no reason to split them up

they do it with smaller maps in portal because each map was prolly made by a different mapper and as such they werent going to be connected and on top of that its easier for the player to know when they passed a level by going to a new map

First, by a map maker's standpoint, If you try to put as many different maps as there were in portal into a SINGLE map file, Hammer would hate you. Keeping things organized with 20 different levels, each with many rooms would be quite the challenge. Trying to keep track of hundreds of entities without using the same entity name twice... not a fun time. Also, if you didn't keep the rooms in their own vis groups... Hammer would explode trying to show you every brush you made. Another problem with having one giant map is it could (potentially) limit the design of a map, if you want a room to go back into a space already occupied by another room.

Also, compiling would take ages, as you wouldn't be able to only re-compile the one room you are changing. If you read some articles about map optimization it will go in to visleafs and portals... but, it would just take forever to compile the whole new map, after you moved one slanted ramp up 32 units to see if the puzzle will work now.

Second: The end-user's side. Simply put, that one single load time would suck.

/endrant.

and lots of little loads beats one huge jumbo load.

lol sorry you guys have it easy today with how fast maps compile. When I worked on maps for dod 1.3b it would take a solid 2 hours to fully compile a map

Also I dont know about you guys but I really do not like to have to go backwards in maps and do things again. I want to go to new areas and see new things not get bogged down doing 52 things in a small space. I would say no more than 4 things for a large room and done all at the same timeframe.

Valve did this a little bit in the single-player, but not to the extent I'd like to do it.

first of all, missing content?
The whole point of the secret levels was to SEE the content.
Basically you had this path assuming start room "a", end room "b" and
secret room "c".
a -> b
or
a -> c -> b.
it worked by making the "normal" exit in "a" take you to "b", and
the "secret" exit took you to "c" which in turn typically only had one exit
for purposes of going back to "b" afterwards. You didn't necessarily have
to make an entire "conditional" tree where one exit makes it branch
COMPLETELY away from the rest of the maps. They actually would lead
BACK to the main map. Which is the whole point of simulating non-linearity aka
"multiple paths" without FULLY implementing it.

Very few games even go that route anyway as the whole "conditional"
thing is difficult to complete anyway.

secondly, all the maps were always separate files, and it would only
make sense to do so. The maze idea seems great, but if you can't
find that "special" exit eventually, it's going to get redundant and
frustrating from a gameplay experience. The whole idea of the "secret"
level was for bonus content that "could" be missed, but if you wanted to
be REALLY in depth with it, you could. (ie if you were just speedrunning it,
you can skip it obviously, if you wanted 100%, you may want to complete it...
That kind of idea).

Anyway, just my opinions on this, and if I ever get around to completing
at least ONE level, I'll eventually make a mappack with that style of
gameplay in mind....

I would only have to ask, why spend so much time developing a level that not all the players will see because its "secret"?

I would think it would make more sense to just keep it linear, and have all your puzzles played.

Now one thing I can see, is having "secret" areas of a map, to change the intended solution.

or a button that will turn the whole room upside down

it can't be too secret or its not worth doing, but it should require thinking with portals to uncover

Quote:
Basically you had this path assuming start room "a", end room "b" and
secret room "c".
a -> b
or
a -> c -> b.
it worked by making the "normal" exit in "a" take you to "b", and
the "secret" exit took you to "c" which in turn typically only had one exit
for purposes of going back to "b" afterwards.

i'm still pushing the maze idea strong, somepeople might not like labyrinths, and that's ok. but most of the time, i appreciate a map more when played for the second time and it seems portal creators understand this too, since they make you play some levels more than once, then over and over in the "bonus maps" that aren't new at all.
also the longer you keep a player in your maps, the more value you get out of the hours you put in. portal maps it seems are one time use...
but by making a player go
a->b->a->c->end
maybe they would have to look for clues in 'a' that point them to 'c' that they missed the first time trying to get to the obvious exit.
i would really enjoy playing a map set like this.