I want to use a certain trick in my map that requires players to shoot a portal at a very low ceiling above them (just around crouch height) - we'll call this portal ORANGE.

If this is done, the player can cease crouching and stand up through the portal on the ceiling (assuming there is a linked BLUE one somewhere else).

While standing up through this ORANGE portal, the player is not effected by the gravity on the BLUE side. I.e. if the linked BLUE portal is placed on a ceiling or wall, the player will not fall out but can shoot in sort of a pseudo portal-in-portal which does not require the player to duck out of the portal before the connection is made.

I've already got a large number of puzzles planned that use this technique, but I've run into some problems. The main problem is that if the player shoots a new ORANGE portal somewhere else whilst standing up in the middle of it, the player can be sort of "teleported" or slightly moved (though not from a portal but rather the absence thereof).

If the ORANGE portal you're standing up through disappears, sometimes the game will lodge you in the ceiling (you'd have to noclip out), in some cases the game may choose to make you fall through the platform you're standing on, and other times it may teleport you above the platform you're on.

I've tried a number of methods to combat this, but I was wondering if anyone else had a fix to suggest.

1) Tried putting a trigger in the volume the player would get stuck in occasionally that would move the platforms, but the trigger would go off if a portal was placed on the adjacent surface and the player then used it. It also didn't seem like moving the platforms would properly dislodge the player every time.

2) Tried putting player clips above and below the crouch space.

If worse comes to worst, I think my only option will be to locate a stationary map-defined ORANGE portal in the ceiling of the crouch space that can be activated by pressing a button or something - and limit the player to the use of only the BLUE portal. This will take quite a bit of the challenge of the maps out, so I don't want to resort to this unless I have to. Another option would be to KILL the player if they become embedded, but it will take some trial-and-error to prevent it from killing players portal'ing on the adjacent surfaces.

So ... suggestions?

Is there a way to:

1) Detect when a portal is no longer on a surface? I know there's a way to detect when a portal first gets to one, but I can't find a way to detect when one disappears.

2) Force the player to crouch?

I want to say that there is a "point_clientcommand" that you can use with "+crouch" to make them crouch, but they will be forced to stay that way until you use another with "-crouch".

As for detecting portals, there is a way to do it, but I don't remember off the top of my head.

On another topic we talked about blue-only and orange-only portal surfaces. We came to the conclusion they were useless and stopped thinking about it.
In fact you found the case where they are useful!

If the ceiling you go up in is orange-only and the point you have to shoot blue-only (or the opposite), your problem is solved (at least from what you said).
The only thing... I have no idea how to code it!

The command to force the player to crouch is actually "+duck".

Hyakkidouran wrote:
On another topic we talked about blue-only and orange-only portal surfaces. We came to the conclusion they were useless and stopped thinking about it.
In fact you found the case where they are useful!

If the ceiling you go up in is orange-only and the point you have to shoot blue-only (or the opposite), your problem is solved (at least from what you said).
The only thing... I have no idea how to code it!

His problem has nothing to do with the color of the portal. His solution for making sure that one of the portals does not disappear is to have one of the portal-halves permanently preexist (just like is done in the early levels of Portal when your gun could only shot blue, or something). Not the same thing (and the early levels of Portal would give examples of how to do it; its not too hard).

The movement when portalling is something you have to live with, IMO. I have a puzzle that uses this "feature" too; to keep from having them get stuck, try having them enter from an angled wall instead of crouching and standing in it (you are giving Portal no leeway in how to get you unstuck). Maybe have them stand on a cube to reach the angled wall. I think they'll get thrown out more, and not get stuck. I've not got stuck this way Avoiding getting lodged in the ceiling is the primary issue, after all.

xitooner wrote:
His problem has nothing to do with the color of the portal.

What Hyakkidouran is suggesting is to put an "orange-only" surface on the ceiling where I want players to squat. Then I'd have to design the level so the player could not see any "orange-only" portals using portal-in-portal - obviously you'd need to have more orange-only walls at some place in the level to make it more challenging than the stationary portal fix I had originally suggested. You might be able to rig a portal detector to somehow kill a portal in a given area OR ... and I don't know if this will work but it would probably be easier to manage ... open a stationary portal somewhere the player could not get to and then IMMEDIATELY deactivate it. The only thing that would remain is somehow letting the player know which portals could be placed on which walls. (preferably by using textures already in the game)

Standing on a cube could work. I'll have to try it. The only question is what would happen to the player if they put the cube through the portal to a place they couldn't reach.[/url]

K. I got one-portal walls working. Unfortunately there's a slight delay after you try to place a portal on an invalid wall - you cannot place it on a valid wall for a few seconds while the other portal is deactivated.

There might be a way to use something else to make the portal disappear, i.e. a fizzler or just some func_ that destroys all portals, but I'm not sure how you'd do that.

Hyakkidouran do you have a link to that other topic? I couldn't find it in searches. I don't think I'm doing anything groundbreaking here and I was wondering if someone in that topic had found a better way to do it.

xitooner wrote:
His problem has nothing to do with the color of the portal.

I know, but using the portal color might be a way to slove the problem more easily than with other solutions, even if it is technically a detour from the primary objective.
Now I am a newbie, so I have no idea what is actually easier to code, but I thought it might be worth it to suggest the option.

Corion => Seems like a minor drawback, especialy if you put a visual effect on the wall that somehow says "you made a mistake, I erase your portal now".
About the texture you should use, maybe concrete with a very blue/orange light over it should be enough to make the problem clear if the light is localized enough.
But recoloring textures with photoshop or gimp is easy, maybe you should go for that.

Hyakkidouran wrote:
But recoloring textures with photoshop or gimp is easy, maybe you should go for that.

I've done that in Unreal, but I'm clueless as to how to do it in Source - those little material text files kinda scare me. I do have the Noesis DVD and I'm fairly certain it says something about importing textures into your map at one point, so I'll check it out. I was thinking of something unintrusive, like recoloring the plastic textures used to frame glass to orange/blue and then framing a wall with it. Stick portal bumpers on them and voila! I think I'm going to have to build some puzzles exclusively around this mechanic, especially with a "teaching" map first.

I'm out of my element here; I've never used Hammer so even if this does do something it may not be what you want.
Anyway, I was thinking(withportals.com) what if you do the thing where the player is under a low ceiling with the orange portal placed so they can stand and below them is a lift that will push them up when the orange portal is shot on a new surface or simply after a given amount of time. You could also make that low ceiling be very thin like a horizontal window so maybe if the player does get trapped in the middle of it they can simply jump up out of it(no idea if that will work).

Even better if you could make a new kind of grid that the player can move through but also place a portal on the grid.

Like I said, I'm out of my element, but hopefully one of those thoughts is useful.

I wonder if you could use the material files to do something like that.

I was also thought about the timed platform thing - I haven't had time to mess around with everything, but I hadn't intended to put a timer each time the user must portal through a ceiling. Also, if the player gets stuck in one of the platforms, the platform may not actually move after the timer stops because the player is blocking the platform's movement. If it's a platform below the player I don't know if it will dislodge the player from the ceiling.

When I started this thread I was hoping someone had already solved all these questions. >.<

I thought about something : if no solution seems to work, you could always make Glados act with a "complimentary escape teleport". But it sure would remain a "dirty" solution.

I can't find again the topic we talked about one-color portal in, but it should not help you because we justed talked about how it was stupid to force player to use one color at a specific place, and we absolutely did not see a case where it could be useful useful like yours, so the discussion lasted 4-5 posts that all said "its stupid to force people to walk by putting a specific foot forward first" or things like that.

Another thing I'd like to somehow get working is to make the two portals the player shoots in different portal groups. Then you could place stationary portals throughout the map that may have to be activated by buttons or entering a certain room.

this particular trick was implemented in one of the beta versions of the AB_Test by Shoklar.

there was a platform jutting out of a wall, and you could crouch under it and make a portal in the bottom of it and then stand up and you'd be standing sideways or upside down no problems if you had another portal in a wall or ceiling.

the problem is he took that out in his latest version.

maybe he still has that piece of map somewhere.

i saw a youtube video of somebody accomplishing this trick in the regular game utilizing a camera on a wall. he stood on the camera and was able to make a portal that he could stand up into and thus tunnel around very easily.

Actually fractal, that trick still exists in my AB_Test map, although I don't think people used it. In room #1, you have to hit 4 buttons to raise a platform which is inside a vat of poison water. Once the platform is raised all the way to the top, you can shoot a portal in the ceiling, reach through and grab the box that is on the platform. However, you can also jump through the portal if you want and stand on the platform, thus implementing the trick in question.

I've never had a problem with that one sticking me in the ceiling and I think the answer is because the two surfaces are so close together. You might want to give this a try: Put the two surfaces very close together so that there is no way for the player to crouch between them. They will have to shoot one portal on the 'ceiling' and then shoot the other portal somewhere and jump through to stand in the portal. This closeness between the portal and the ground might just eliminate your problem.

i thought the ceiling portal thing (after getting all 5 cubes onto buttons) was cool in earlier versions of your map... i'd like to see more of that.

as for the green cube heh i just made a portal into a wall to pick the cube out because i was too afraid of the green liquid

Speaking of the standing-portal trick, here is something I ran across in my testing that was. . .freaking weird.

Make a empty room with all 6 walls portable. Put 3 cubes on the floor. Make two rectangular blocks with sides just big enough to put a portal on them (128x64, or something like that). Place them such that:

• One is on the ground, altar-style (so you could put a portal on its top face if you wanted).

• The other is above it parallel to it, and they are seperated by slightly more than half the length of a cube (you'll see why in a minute). Make sure you can squat and shoot a portal on the UNDERSIDE of the top rectangular block.

Okay, now for fun stunt #1. Place blue portal on the underside of the highest rectangular block, and orange portal on the wall. If you did it right, you can now take two cubes and put them in the open portal on the wall; they will fill the portal. They wont fall because most of their weight is setting on the lower rectangular block. And since the cubes are secure in placement and wont move on transition, you can move your orange portal at will.

Move that orange portal around; put it on the ceiling. . put it anywhere; the cubes wont fall. Portal underneath the 3rd cube, and watch the 2 cubes throw it in the air, etc.

If you adjust the depth between the blocks more, I think I once made it strong enough that I could go stand on the portaled "cube ledge" on the wall And of course with some block adjustment, you can take the cubes out, put orange portal on the floor, step in and squat to do all of this yourself.

Yeah, thats all neat, but thats not the really weird thing. Here is fun stunt#2:

Odds are, that top of the blue portal is really near the shorter edge of that rectangular block. Walk up to it. When you get really close, you will get "sucked in". You will have visibility as if you were in the orange portal, and you can shoot. Shoot the ceiling, and you (and the cubes) are upside down without falling, etc. But. . .walk away from the portal edge, and you are back on the ground again.

This worked a few months ago; I havent tried lately, but I bet it all still works. . .

hm could you make a vid demonstrating that? i think i'll get it more clearly with a vid...

iamafractal wrote:
hm could you make a vid demonstrating that? i think i'll get it more clearly with a vid...

First I'd have to rebuild the map . . . Maybe I will sometime. . .