[WIP] Saved by the cake

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Helix_Snake
9 Posts
Posted Nov 10, 2007

dload.php?action=filefile_id=85

There it is, my first map. I tried to get everything as perfect as possible. If you find any ways to "cheat", or textures that don't line up, glitches, ways to screw yourself etc. Please post them here. Unless you end up killing yourself with a cube (hard to do unless you mean to), the only time you will die is at the very beginning if you don't understand that red-hot glowing bar = death (but it's not easy to get killed that way on accident)
It's just my opinion, but I think I was very creative with the puzzles in this map.

Constructive criticism is welcome, but please don't overdo it. Saying "textures do not line up" doesn't help; you need to tell me WHERE. Asking me to overhaul an entire section of my map isn't helpful either.

Update: Beta 2

Fixed keep-upright wierdness about the L-block
Improved some of the lighting
Changed the glass "chair" to metal
Made the fire force field more conspicuous
Lowered the top panel so it is more evident you have to duck
Made it so you can't bring the L-block into the tunnel (you automatically drop it)
Changed some of the dialogue so it's more obvious what you're supposed to do
Brought the L-block up a little bit so that it's easier to figure out you can pick it up
Made the first "companion" cube into a regular cube
A bunch of stuff that's too small to mention

&&

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Lorithad
240 Posts
Posted Nov 10, 2007
Replied 16 hours later
I really didn't like this map all that much. In fact, I didn't even beat it.

These are the things that I did notice before I decided I didn't like the map:
I'm just going to put my entire review of the map in a spoiler tag, cause in explaining why I dislike the map, I have to go into details about the puzzles. So if you haven't played yet, give it a shot before reading what I've wrote. That way, your opionion won't be biased by my views.

||At the start of the map, we're presented with our beloved companion cube.
Then you expect us to position the cube from one portal to another so that it falls in a small hole and lands on a button. This is easy enough I suppose, except you can't actually see the button in question when you are positioning the cube. You just need to hope you've got it in the right spot before letting it go. Also, if you do it wrong, it is possible to have the cube stuck on the glass above the button, but in a spot that you are unable to grab it to move it. So you need to restart the map.

Once the button is pressed, the metal wall preventing you from going through the portal you put the cube in moves up a bit. Thus, allowing you to go through the portal, and follow the cube. Easier said than done. My first attempt at this, it took about 40-80 tries to get myself onto the hole. The second attempt(you'll understand in a sec), maybe 15-20.

Once you do manage to get to the cube, you can drop down and walk through an emancipation field. Seeing as how you gave us a companion cube, you'd think you could take it through the field. Nope. Companion cube gone. Cue flashbacks of the Aperture Science Emergency Intelligence Incinerator, and the tears that were shed the first time I was forced to kill my friend for the sake of the project.

At that point, I realised that there were no autosaves. Autosaves are very important, but since we haven't REALLY had anything that would warrant them yet, I'll let you off the hook. I did however, load anyway to see if I could prevent my friend from dying. Nope. You're a monster.

In the next chamber, you need to go up a flight of stairs, and somehow get past a hole on a walkway. Again, easier said than done. I tried several times, all combinations of jumps, air crouching, side strafing, etc.
This is where I gave up.

In short, this map isn't about portals at all. It's about fitting through tiny holes and jumping places. If you want people to play it, at least make the jumps feasible.||

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Helix_Snake
9 Posts
Posted Nov 10, 2007
Replied 15 minutes later
Lorithad, ||you are doing the second room completely wrong. If there are parts of the room that seem completely useless, maybe you should rethink your strategy. I made the clues to what you're supposed to do in the second room painfully obvious, and yet you still didn't get it. See that gigantic freaking arrow? There's a reason that's there. I'm sorry if this sounds rude, but geez, I was afraid the maps would be too obvious and I am totally shocked by your inability to finish it.

Also, in the first room, the only reason you're finding it hard is you're trying it the same way over and over. That puzzle was designed to show that it matters which way you make the ceiling portal; you have to make the portal so that the "gap" that the moving panel creates is next to the hole. When the panels move, you're supposed to go around and make the ceiling portal in the opposite direction. You really should think about what would make putting the cube/yourself in the hole easier, instead of trying the same thing over and over when it doesn't work.||

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Lorithad
240 Posts
Posted Nov 10, 2007
Replied 23 minutes later
I have no problem being called an idiot with regard to that second room. I can't figure it out. The only thing that I could see obviously wasn't right.

I'm curious to see what other people think though. Usually I can figure out a room within a reasonable ammount of time.

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Helix_Snake
9 Posts
Posted Nov 10, 2007
Replied 18 minutes later
Everything in that second room is there for a reason, including the fact that there's a lighthole in the ceiling shining a red L on the floor.

That should be a big enough hint. Also:

You don't have to kill the WCC, you can just leave her resting on the button. :p

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Lorithad
240 Posts
Posted Nov 10, 2007
Replied 6 minutes later
Its actually not enough of a hint helix. I've got the map loaded right now. Trying anything I can think of. I have a feeling you're trying to get the player to do something that the player doesn't know how to do.

That L thing on the floor/ceiling? How is that supposed to do anything? When I shoot the L on the floor, it looks as though the portal projectile is being redirected. But where can you redirect it to that would make any difference? Shooting into the L has no result, as it doesn't have a portalable surface.

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Helix_Snake
9 Posts
Posted Nov 10, 2007
Replied 8 minutes later
........

Go up to the L, look at it, and press the use key.

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Lorithad
240 Posts
Posted Nov 10, 2007
Replied 9 minutes later
I'm sorry, but WHAT!?

||In the game, there was never anything like that. You gave no hints at all that would imply there was an item there.

Once the L-block was in my possession, then yeah, the room was easy. Your point in failure lies in the fact that the block isn't something that you would think to pick up.||

I also forgot to point out that when you take the cube off the button, the metal plate doesn't return to its previous position. Not important, but doesn't follow standard game practices.

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Helix_Snake
9 Posts
Posted Nov 10, 2007
Replied 6 minutes later

Quote:
You gave no hints at all that would imply there was an item there.

You mean besides the red light and the giant freaking arrow? You tried all these things with shooting portals at it but you never even tried pressing "use" on it? I'll see what I can do to improve the button problem. Thank you.

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espen180
307 Posts
Posted Nov 10, 2007
Replied 5 minutes later
Lohitrad: Don't be roo rude. It's a work in progress, after all.

Helix_Snake: Learn to accept critisism.

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Helix_Snake
9 Posts
Posted Nov 10, 2007
Replied 1 minutes later
Sorry Lohitrad, I'm just confused and a little scared about whether or not this is going to be a common issue. I don't want to have to make it too obvious; I have an idea though.
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taco
504 Posts
Posted Nov 10, 2007
Replied 1 minutes later
There are a number of problems with this map in it's current state:

Misaligned textures.

The 1st puzzle can be screwed up to the point of needing to restart the game.

The glowing red bar is not a known convention and needs to be taught - also, it looks bad.

All the glass you have need to have plastic brackets as in the official game - right now it looks bad.

The point of a WCC is that it is a companion and should not be killed to easily - I would let the player keep the WCC and use it as a solution to your 2nd puzzle (which by the way NEEDS to be changed).

The whole 'L-block' thing doesn't follow any sort of convention that even remotely resembles anything from the game and therefore needs to be taught or removed from the game.

There are probably some other things too. It's a decent start but needs a lot of refinement.

P.S. You should watch your tone when responding to peoples posts - they don't have to test your map and give feedback.

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Yekyaa
59 Posts
Posted Nov 10, 2007
Replied 1 minutes later
Do we need a mediator for criticism now? ^^
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espen180
307 Posts
Posted Nov 10, 2007
Replied 4 minutes later
From what I've read so far you have an L-shaped object that can be interacted with in some way. Remember how in Portal you would find these little white squares which showed you stuff relevant to nearby game elements? For example, by a ball launcher you would find a white square with a man getting hit by the orb, an a warning. These were also used as instructions. I suggest creating a similar sign and placing it near you L-shaped object, as those little white squares are a knows Portal element and would effectivly convey the message to players.
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Helix_Snake
9 Posts
Posted Nov 10, 2007
Replied 5 minutes later
You know what? Map making is obviously not my strong suit. I have no idea how I'm supposed to "teach" the player anything, so I'm going to have to give up on this map. I'll keep everything you guys said in mind if I make a new one. Thank you all.
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espen180
307 Posts
Posted Nov 10, 2007
Replied 2 minutes later
As long as you don't give to mapping entirly. Don't feel bad. All mapers who have mapped a certain ammount of time come across maps that just don't work and have to start over, and I know, it feels pretty hopeless, but it's really not your fault. I'm sure this map would fit nicely in a certain game. Just not Portal.

Try again. Please.

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Astro
77 Posts
Posted Nov 10, 2007
Replied 8 minutes later
Your post has been deleted and you have been issued a warning. -Espen180
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Lorithad
240 Posts
Posted Nov 10, 2007
Replied 5 minutes later
Yeah Helix, don't give up. I honestly believe you have everything it takes to make a fantastic map maker.

I just finished the map, and I loved the third chamber. Though I didn't intend on getting there.
Hell, I didn't even know there was more after the cake until I read the download description from the upload. I hadn't made it to an elevator, so it wasn't over.

for those of you wondering how to get to the third chamber:
Emancipate your cake.

If you were to continue work on this map, there really are only a few things that you'd need to do in order for me to really like it.

Move the portalable ceiling tile a little closer to the button opening.
Make the button opening a little larger.
Give some sort of diagram as to the L block, or change the way the L block is introduced. Perhaps a cube dispencer dispencing the wrong item? I'm assuming that can be done.
Give more hints on how to get to the third chamber.
Improve the lighting in the cake area and in the area you drop to shortly before the third chamber. Way too dark.

Once those are fixed, it would be great. Also, I loved the line for if/when you emancipate the turret.

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NocturnalGhost
200 Posts
Posted Nov 10, 2007
Replied 1 minute later
Okay, I just played through this map. My first thoughts were:

Room 1: It took me a few deaths to realise what the puzzle was, and why I was dying. This could have been made more obvious by using some kind of energy field or something, instead of just a red line (I didn't actually read your first post, as I wanted to play it with no preconceptions).

The puzzle itself was ok, and I eventually realised that the direction of the ceiling portal was important.

Room 2: (By this I mean the connecting hallway.) The main problem I have with this room is the only object in it, the emancipation field.

The emancipation field is fine for stopping storage cubes being taken further into levels than desired, but the WCC deserves a more grand death than that.

I actually thought that since you had given us a companion cube as opposed to a storage cube, I had to somehow bypass that field, as the companion cube is something GLaDOS thinks humans should be attached to, and therefore makes them consciously kill it, as opposed to leaving it behind, or simply taking it into an emancipation field.

I hope you see my point in that last paragraph, that the companion cube's iconic status means that any "euphanising" should be forced, and more grand.

Room 3: What the hell? lol. I had to come and read this very thread to find out what to do here, and even then I was like "that's stupid". (please don't take offense at that). I believe Lorithad has said most of what i also thought about that particular puzzle.

My suggestion would be, rather than hiding the L-shaped block by embedding it in the floor, just have it fall from the ceiling as you enter the room. Then people will know that it's a physics object, rather than just light shining through the hole in the ceiling.

Also, about the L-block. It behaves very wierdly with regards to physics. I realise this is probably intentional, but it detracts from immersion quite a bit if it always stays the same way up after falling etc.

Last section: On the left hand side of the cake dropper, you can see into the "void". Is there a leak, or nodraw there?

Please take this post as constructive criticism, as this has the potential to be a good map. Also, this is just my opinion, others may vary

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Player1
212 Posts
Posted Nov 10, 2007
Replied 2 minutes later
Hehe, glad I didn't read through this thread before trying the map. The first room I found cool and satisfying. Working with half-portals that way and having to think about the orientation of one of the portals is very cool and very portal.

The second room I was as clueless as anybody in this thread. I loved it once I got the tetris block out, but honestly it behaves very weirdly. You can't rotate it (except around the up-axis) or anything... Try putting it on the staircase to see what I mean. That kinda breaks the whole physics thing.

I spent quite some time trying to figure out how to get my WCC through the emancipation grid, but that didn't work of course. Most of this was due to me thinking I'd need that to build just that kind of stepping stone thingy that the tetris block allowed me to.

After the second room I only just had time to think "oh fck" before being "saved by the cake". Is that the end of the level? I couldn't find anywhere else to go.

Imo you have to make the picking up of the tetris block much more obvious and you also have to make it a proper physics object instead of that weird floating stuff. It would still be doable and cool if it was a regular physics object...

EDIT: Don't quit please. This map demonstrated some true innovation and I'd love to see it finished. It just needs some polish on the whole "introducing the player to new gimmicks" front to be great!