NocturnalGhost, the L block dropping from the ceiling is genius. Pure genius.

Helix_Snake wrote:
You know what? Map making is obviously not my strong suit. I have no idea how I'm supposed to "teach" the player anything, so I'm going to have to give up on this map. I'll keep everything you guys said in mind if I make a new one. Thank you all.

Don't give up on the map just because there are a few issues with it, people are giving you lots of ideas on how to improve it, and most aren't that complicated to implement.

Like you said, this is your first map -and if you listen to the dev. commentary you will here them talking about how their level designs who are being paid tens of thousands of dollars had to go though LOADS of iterations of the maps in portal.

And in all honesty, this map isn't half bad for being your first ever.

Don't give up on this.

For your first map ever, I'd say this map is great. From what I read, you have incorporated several portal elements and various entity setups which are extremely rare in beginner maps.

Lorithad wrote:
NocturnalGhost, the L block dropping from the ceiling is genius. Pure genius.

Lol thanks. I've done something similar im a map i'm working on. It will probably never be finished though, as my mapping skills leave a lot to be desired.

Player1 wrote:
After the second room I only just had time to think "oh fck" before being "saved by the cake". Is that the end of the level? I couldn't find anywhere else to go.

I just read the the-cake-isn't-the-end comment so I replayed it and found the real ending now.

I really really really liked this bit. If you can get voice work instead of the on-screen text it will truly shine. Your humour seems to match the Portal black-humour quite well

I think the only thing I don't like about this level is the fact you have to leave the original WCC behind. You should make it an objective to rescue that as well! (That and the hidden object in room 2 that I had to read about here to figure out.)

Can someone please confirm what the real ending is? I've just put the second companion cube on the button. Is there any more to the level after that?

NocturnalGhost wrote:
Can someone please confirm what the real ending is? I've just put the second companion cube on the button. Is there any more to the level after that?

Yes. It ends for real. There's an elevator and all. You won't be in doubt once it's over.

In the download comments, Helix stated that It wasn't over until you were in an elevator. So I'm pretty sure that's the end.

Sounds like a fun map that I need to try when I get home aside from
the current complaints. It is still a WIP though so that's to be expected.
Some things may not make sense, and I hope the designer doesn't give
up on this map as it sounds like it could be a potentially great map.

I wish him luck on this and hope to see this map released with at
least some of the major features intact... looking forward to trying it
out in a few hours.

Lorithad wrote:
In the download comments, Helix stated that It wasn't over until you were in an elevator. So I'm pretty sure that's the end.

I finally found it. I really should start reading the comments before downloading

I will finish my views of this map now, where my last part left off.

Getting the cake: You should make it more obvious when you get the cake that your job is to euthanise it. People would have figured this out eventually, but there will be much frustration beforehand.

After you drop: I enjoyed this part (jumping puzzle to obtain the second WCC). It took some timing to achieve, and must have taken some work to get the dimensons right for the jump. It was difficult, without being frustrating.

As my last post showed, I had some trouble at the end noticing the loose tile, but that was down to my own stupidity more than anything else, and the fact this is a wip , so I wasn't sure if it had an "end" other than the "you are still trapped" theme.

Also, i'm not sure if you are aware, but you can skip the last jumping puzzle completely, and never bother getting the second wcc, by taking the L-block with you when you fall down the hole, and using that to activate the switch and get through the hole in the wall.

The solution to this would be to euthanise the L-block, but you could always leave it in for the sake of the steps/portals/time challenges.

I have mainly noticed the worst points of your map here, as these are the things you need to work on before release.

Please don't take this as me saying your map sucks, because it doesn't. Some things just need to be made a bit more obvious, to avoid player frustration.

NocturnalGhost wrote:
Also, i'm not sure if you are aware, but you can skip the last jumping puzzle completely, and never bother getting the second wcc, by taking the L-block with you when you fall down the hole, and using that to activate the switch and get through the hole in the wall.

The solution to this would be to euthanise the L-block, but you could always leave it in for the sake of the steps/portals/time challenges.

Or an alternate solution would be just as simple as putting an
activation filter on the button to only allow for boxes with name "WCC" or
WSC or whatever... there's something in the wiki about this to keep
cameras and alternate objects setting off buttons due to being
physics objects.
This would also avoid the need to euthanize the "L" block for
purposes of finding shortcuts for challenge maps

Just a thought. ^^

Good idea. That would probably be the preferred solution.

I really need to get up to speed with all this new stuff lol. I haven't mapped much since HL1, so there's a lot i still have to learn.

One more small thing I just noticed with this map is that, whilst you can pick up the heavy L-block, you can't pick up the thin vent thing at the end. This should either be broken when you touch it, able to be picked up, or on a hinge and still attached, to explain why you can't pick it up.

Just a small detail, but it adds to the final "polish" of the map.

Alright, beta 2 fixes most of the problems you guys brought up. Thank you. If anyone has any other suggestions, glitches, easy shortcuts, etc. please tell me.

Great to hear you got it going! IMO anyone that has to suffer through lack of SDK is AOK in my book

Helix_Snake wrote:
Alright, beta 2 fixes most of the problems you guys brought up. Thank you. If anyone has any other suggestions, glitches, easy shortcuts, etc. please tell me.

Nice. Not sure if the tetris block is obvious enough yet, but it's certainly more conspicous.

One thing though. [spoiler]When working with the tetris block it was a lot harder to push it into the right spot through the portals. Once it oddly managed to get pushed all the way through the blocker geometry. Most of the times it hurt me (red flashes and cries of pain from Chell). I could only manage to stick it 15 cm or so through, which was enough to walk on, but it was a hassle.

I still don't understand the red semi-transparent thingy that's attached to the half-portal limiter stuff in the first room. What's it do?

Glad to hear you are still working on this map Helix_Snake.

I had another play-through, and have another list of things that you should look at. (Sorry, but it wouldn't be a real beta test, if everything worked well for you first time )

Okay, here goes:

First room:
I lke the fact that you made the cube(s) here into normal storage cubes. It puts less importance on the fact you have to leave them behind/fizzle them, so players won't spend ages trying to get a companion cube past the emancipator later on.

Now, on to the problems I saw here.
1) The box dropper regularly spawns 2 blocks. I'm not sure if this was intentional or not, but it simplifies the puzzle here a bit (more on that in a second)
1b) Both boxes say the same sentence when picked up, which is wierd when you do get 2 at once, but no big deal in itself.

2) The puzzle here seemed originally intended to show that portal direction matters, which i liked. Unfortunately, this is somewhat broken due to having 2 boxes. If you shoot the ceiling portal from the box dropper side, you can stand on one box, and throw the other one through to activate the switch, then just jump through the portal when the barrier moves from the bottom.

3) I like that you've made the killing field a bit more obvious, but it looks more like red glass than a field. I think an effect similar to the emancipation field would look better here (like a red version, or something similar).

The Connecting room:
1) You should maybe think about putting an emancipation field at the top, or on either side of the button before you drop down here. This will stop players wondering if they need to take the cube(s) with them.

2) The height of the emancipation field at the bottom seems wrong. There is a gap at the top that looks like it could fit a cube through, which may add to player confusion, and it also seems to extend some way under the floor, as seen through the gap.

Block puzzle room:
1) Whilst walking around this room trying to think as a player who doesn't know this puzzle, I decided to walk around/over the L-block a few times, to see how obvious it seemed to me. This is where I noticed a big problem. It killed me, instantly!

This must be some kind of wierd physics error, due to having the box embedded in a space that small. I tried to repeat this, and, although it did not kill me again, it did seem to "charge up" with energy as a i walked backwards and forwards over it, jumping about in it's hole, before eventually flying across the room, as if hit by a grav gun.

Caketunnel:
You can still see "void" immediately to the left of the cake dispenser. There must be a nodraw here that you have missed.

Rest of level:
It is still completable using the L-block, in exactly the same way as before, without ever seeing Britney.

These are, in my mind, the most important flaws with this map. It's not all criticism though. I like what you have done with the new dialogue, as you are never left wondering "what now?", and it's good that you are taking on board what people are saying, and finding work-arounds.

Keep up the good work. Good luck with this map.

I really liked the revisions to the map. The only thing that kind of irritated me, was how the The L-Block killed me. 3 times.

It happened like this:
||Portal 1 was put on the bottom right.
Portal 2 was put on bottom left.
L-Block was inserted through portal 1 into Socket A
Portal 1 was then put on top right.
L-block was adjusted so as to complete the walkway.
Player killed while adjusting L-block

I think it has something to do with the size of the L block in relation to the portal. You have to have the L-block alligned perfectly with the portal in order for it to go in. Otherwise it bounces back at high velocity, which kills you. I think. It all happened so fast.||

I did like that it was now a lot harder to kill yourself with the red bar. Would still think something like a combine shield would work better though. Just something that allows objects to pass through, but not people. Once the button is pressed, the shield drops, the metal plate moves, and everyone lives happily ever after.

As far as NocturnalGhost's comment regarding the top of the first emancipation field, I actually thought that on my first run through the map. It contributed to me restarting the map that first time.

One question though. In the 148 pound button room
Does the button actually do anything aside from provide light?
Cause being in the dark is one of those things that gets to me often. I'd much rather see the room lighted normally, and have the button open the way to the elevator.

Keep up the good work

I like the map (except for finding the L block). Maybe you should add hearts on it and make it the compainion l block. Or have it fall as earlier post have said. I loved the part with the cake however I managed to get myself stuck a few times by some odd glitches.
1. one time with the l block in the portals it simply dissapered perventing me from killng the cake.
2. I actually managed to get Britney stuck in the grating.
These glithces seem very rare so my advice is simply make some auto save points in case it happens to a player they can reload

ah, i found the L-brick pretty easy to find, but I have no clue
what to do with the heavy companion cube after i dropped it on
the big button. It's all so dark and i see nearly nothing The
level is awesome thugh

The mother of all bumps.