but you can get free energy with portals (i guess that's why they can't exist... Uin=Uout) as long as you can see a higher place. but i'm confused about fling trick two also.

Aikar: No harm but your mspaint concept art is quite tricky to understand. You don't think you can make it in PS or so and make it more hi-res?

Pandar: Just downloaded and checked out your ideas, very nice, all of them! I hope at least one of them gets made, I think they would be very fun.

• Nezerv

Artesia wrote:
I've been working on a map since the day portal came out.

After extensive testing on the day of release I can tell you that Pandar's number 2 idea, is... sadly, impossible as illistrated here.

Think of it this way: You transfer the downward momentum to diagonal momentum which then arcs to go to the next platform, due to gravity, the next platform can't be as high as the one before it. Due to physics you cannot gain more height then the height you fell for momentum, and the only way to get the same height is to keep it vertical, once you start putting arcs into it, gravity takes hold and brings you down after a few jumps.

I'm still undecided wether I'll release a progress of my map or not, but it has a "creative" solution to this problem.

It's possible actually. I've also been thinking about physics with the game, and the conclusion is always that our laws of nature don't hold true in the Half-Life world ^^

For example, if you place a portal in the ceiling and one on the floor. You're standing on the floor. So:

E=mgh, h=0m so E=0J

You jump trough the floor portal and come out at the ceiling. Which is, say, 10 meters above the floor. So:

E=mgh
h=10m
m=75kg?
g=around10m/s2
E=7500J

Which is why a floor-ceiling portal tunnel gives you unlimited energy, thus speed (up to the air resistance).

Back to Pandar's idea. You can trough the first diagonal surface, playing a portal on ground level. In this fling you place a portal on the second diagonal surface. Once you reach the ground from last fling, you place the other portal so that you fling from the second surface. And so on.

This is actually done in small in the game I think. In the large turret ambush chamber near the end.

Here its my IDEA (and maybe project) : http://img-up.net/img/my_mapLZiyV.PNG

Robinson wrote:
Which is why a floor-ceiling portal tunnel gives you unlimited energy, thus speed (up to the air resistance).

If we're discussing in-game physics, it probably bears noting that there is no air resistance as such. Terminal velocity is an arbitrarily defined constant, not the effect of friction with the air.

This can be observed by putting both portals next to each other and jumping in. You keep going in and out without ever slowing down due to air resistance.

Hober wrote:
Robinson wrote:

Which is why a floor-ceiling portal tunnel gives you unlimited energy, thus speed (up to the air resistance).

If we're discussing in-game physics, it probably bears noting that there is no air resistance as such. Terminal velocity is an arbitrarily defined constant, not the effect of friction with the air.

This can be observed by putting both portals next to each other and jumping in. You keep going in and out without ever slowing down due to air resistance.

I don't know all too much about the term 'Terminal Velocity', I have a rather low degree of Physics understanding. But isn't Terminal Velocity actually the limit set by the precense of air resistance?

The Floor-Floor portal loop is a weird case, and indeed you should at some point stop with you point of gravity right inside the portal. But that's my point, I don't think Valve took the laws of nature too seriously. If they did the game would probably suffer.

Robinson wrote:
I have a rather low degree of Physics understanding. But isn't Terminal Velocity actually the limit set by the precense of air resistance?

Exactly. Terminal velocity is the speed at which the pull of gravity is equaled out by the force of friction of air against a falling object. Thus an object with less friction (a wad of paper) will fall faster than one with more friction (a flat sheet of paper). Skydivers can assume many different positions to increase or decrease their friction, and therefore speed.

Robinson wrote:
The Floor-Floor portal loop is a weird case, and indeed you should at some point stop with you point of gravity right inside the portal.

That assumes that the center of gravity is directly below the floor. It is instead some miles through the earth (assuming we're keeping things terrestrial), near the center of the planet. In game terms, this just means that gravity is always in the negative Z direction.

Robinson wrote:
But that's my poinI don't know all too much about the term 'Terminal Velocity',t, I don't think Valve took the laws of nature too seriously. If they did the game would probably suffer.

I'll definitely agree with this. The game is a simulation, which means that it cuts certain corners, such as having no air resistance and an arbitrarily set terminal velocity. The trick is to find those corners that were cut and use them.

I can't see them taking a game that has a robot that talks to you and a portal device really realistic anyway.

I'm thinking of making a series of maps taking place after the official game's "time". The facility will be in a sort of "red-alert" setting, with broken equipment, red lights etc...

paraddoxx wrote:
Here its my IDEA (and maybe project) : http://img-up.net/img/my_mapLZiyV.PNG

Nice, I like it. Let me know if you need any help with anything. I'd like to somehow be a part of this idea.

I would also like to suggest making little groups that work together (maybe have some neat little competetions.) In a group, you would have one puzzle designer/map critic, one primary room navigation creator, and one detail creator. Get like 3 teams of 3 going on mapsets. Maybe each group would have to make the hardest maps, or the most voted set of maps with a simple poll.

Let's say, theoretically, each team is given 1 month to make 3 well created and organized maps. To start, the puzzle creator gets to work on some map concepts, everyone votes amongst the team, picks the 3 they like the best, or merges some ideas together, then the puzzle creator gets to work on the final draft of the first map, churns it out after a few days, then shoots it out to the primary room navigation creator, then after he has gotten the basic layout made in the game, shoot it to the detail creator to insert models, doors, puzzle components, textures, etc, at which point, the puzzle creator should be about done with the second of three maps. The whole thing could definitely be done within a month (assuming other people have very little life, like myself. (man, my g/f hates me right now.)

Winners get props, and nothing more, haha.

That way, we are challenging ourselves, by challenging eachother and working together to get some really tough stuff going.

I would like to open an invitation, anyone who thinks this is a neat idea, pm me and maybe we can get some really good stuff going.

The competition idea is an interesting one, and I agree with the idea of a maximum number of mappers per group (3 sounds good), but I would:
-- Not require the job breakdown. Two people can be designers and one the actual mapper if they like. However each team wants to break things down should be up to them.
-- Also allow less than three people per team. Some people may be able to work more efficiently by themselves, instead of having to communicate their ideas to someone else who may misinterpret matters.

Good point I agree, yeah, just max mappers to a group: 3

Glad to see some input on this idea.

Maybe we can set a little competetion up. See if we can get 4 or 5 teams going. I'll think about some rules, if you guys want to do the same, and we'll "announce" the very first "thinking with portals.com map competetion".

I would say start a thread on the topic, and crosspost this stuff (or an admin could move the posts hint hint), but give it time to fully bake. Work out a solid rules set and system.

But also, for the love of God, give us some time. I just started using Hammer yesterday, but I'd love to get in on this. I imagine I, and much of the mapping community, could use some time to stretch our legs.

Trust me, I agree. The mechanics behind mapping, as of thusfar, just to get everything to work has taken such a ridiculous amount of time this weekend of studying. I had nothing to do this weekend but test and try stuff, I can imagine most people will need another week or two to get accustomed to things.

How about we start the competition in the very near future, like next Friday. We'll see if we can get the admins to agree on a good time and get some official announcement made.

Time shouldn't be an issue. We could hold maybe a monthly competition for maps? Then put all the maps in the map packs making it a real TWP map pack.

y-aji wrote:
paraddoxx wrote:

Here its my IDEA (and maybe project) : http://img-up.net/img/my_mapLZiyV.PNG

Nice, I like it. Let me know if you need any help with anything. I'd like to somehow be a part of this idea.

I would also like to suggest making little groups that work together (maybe have some neat little competetions.) In a group, you would have one puzzle designer/map critic, one primary room navigation creator, and one detail creator. Get like 3 teams of 3 going on mapsets. Maybe each group would have to make the hardest maps, or the most voted set of maps with a simple poll.

Let's say, theoretically, each team is given 1 month to make 3 well created and organized maps. To start, the puzzle creator gets to work on some map concepts, everyone votes amongst the team, picks the 3 they like the best, or merges some ideas together, then the puzzle creator gets to work on the final draft of the first map, churns it out after a few days, then shoots it out to the primary room navigation creator, then after he has gotten the basic layout made in the game, shoot it to the detail creator to insert models, doors, puzzle components, textures, etc, at which point, the puzzle creator should be about done with the second of three maps. The whole thing could definitely be done within a month (assuming other people have very little life, like myself. (man, my g/f hates me right now.)

Winners get props, and nothing more, haha.

That way, we are challenging ourselves, by challenging eachother and working together to get some really tough stuff going.

I would like to open an invitation, anyone who thinks this is a neat idea, pm me and maybe we can get some really good stuff going.

man if you want make it , because now i cant ... (only if you want ) or i'll but dont know when .

and - **i like that - puzzle designer/map critic **

looks like the admins took our advice. A competetion deadline is already set for Oct 31.

y-aji wrote:
looks like the admins took our advice. A competetion deadline is already set for Oct 31.

ofc the admins took our advice

Karkk wrote:
True, however I'd prefer seeing a puzzlerooms goal quite quickly after a look around and then figure out how to get to it rather than having to first figure out which one of 5 ways I'm supposed to go. I think that with good level design figuring out where to go can be quite fun but personally I can feel very overwhelmed if I start on a map with holes and buttons everywhere without any hints as to where I'm supposed to go.

the way i see it, portal mappers have a problem, and that is once their map is played, its done. so making very challenging maps where maybe you don't know where to go, or there are many many ways to go seems to me like it might extend the life of the map, or make it more notable since it's the only one you haven't been able to do yet.. ect.. my favorite custom map so far is just one big room, and was the most challenging so far only because i didn;t know what to do. he was also able to integrate it into the bonus map feature so you can record # of portals/time/steps. which is very legit.

here's the map i was talking about here http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/s ... p?t=612396
looking at hints is cheating.