First time poster, long time read/player of all the great maps here. I was wondering if anyone who got to beta test this test maker can answer two questions for me. I have been searching every piece of news I can find and I get conflicting information.

1) Can you make Co-op Maps with this?
Seems very limiting if you can only do single player maps. But I would imagine converting it from a single player map to Coop using Hammer would be a matter of just changing the spawn and end points manually, yeah?

2) Are you limited to only entrance and exit doors, with no inside doors to split up rooms?
If so this too seems kind of limiting since a lot of the puzzles in the game as well as the custom ones here are split into multiple rooms to keep puzzle elements from being used in different locations of the chamber.

If anyone in the know could get back to me that would be great. I too plan to use this to make the backbone of my chambers and then edit them in Hammer.

MrTwoVideoCards wrote:
Sleeper, join us. Become a legend. A Steam Workshop Legend.

Okay. On one condition. I'm producing it, and I get to cut whatever the fuck I need to make a deadline.

lotyboy wrote:
First time poster, long time read/player of all the great maps here. I was wondering if anyone who got to beta test this test maker can answer two questions for me. I have been searching every piece of news I can find and I get conflicting information.

1) Can you make Co-op Maps with this?
Seems very limiting if you can only do single player maps. But I would imagine converting it from a single player map to Coop using Hammer would be a matter of just changing the spawn and end points manually, yeah?

No, you cannot make coop maps with this. And on release you won't be able to upload coop maps either, though they are planning to fix this later on

lotyboy wrote:
2) Are you limited to only entrance and exit doors, with no inside doors to split up rooms?
If so this too seems kind of limiting since a lot of the puzzles in the game as well as the custom ones here are split into multiple rooms to keep puzzle elements from being used in different locations of the chamber.

If anyone in the know could get back to me that would be great. I too plan to use this to make the backbone of my chambers and then edit them in Hammer.

There are no doors, but there are laserfields and fizzlers, big panels that can open. So you can still split your rooms into multiple parts!

msleeper wrote:
MrTwoVideoCards wrote:

Sleeper, join us. Become a legend. A Steam Workshop Legend.

Okay. On one condition. I'm producing it, and I get to cut whatever the fuck I need to make a deadline.

Sure that works. I didn't plan on going overboard with it anyways. More or less just generally making puzzles that adhered to some theme in terms of gameplay, and making enough puzzles that built that theme up somewhat. Going to iterate on the whole infifling thing more. Originally when we planned it we were going to have hub world, and essentially each of our worlds would contain a unique theme like in the coop. Though there was no limitation to others making puzzles for other themes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpwLqTpO ... re=related

&

The Irate Pirate wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpwLqTpO_HA&feature=related

Not the best movie, it's obvious that the makers are really not familiar with the editor yet, but it does show what the easy map maker can do

Hmm, any reason co-op maps can't be created yet? Maybe they're just wanting to beta test one at a time. First single player, then co-op sometime later this year. Or is there something bigger at work here stopping it from happening?

Surely if you design a map in the editor with co-op in mind, then export to hammer, add in co-op spawn and end points then compile?

I can see alot of the "groundworks" for maps being done using the editor then the really smart people polishing them up in hammer anyway, so why not change a "solo" map to "co-op"...

gigadrive08 wrote:
Hmm, any reason co-op maps can't be created yet? Maybe they're just wanting to beta test one at a time. First single player, then co-op sometime later this year. Or is there something bigger at work here stopping it from happening?

Deadlines. If they had put in co-op, you'd probably have to wait at least another month for it.

They've told us it's coming at some point, so keep your eyes peeled.

RustyDios wrote:
Surely if you design a map in the editor with co-op in mind, then export to hammer, add in co-op spawn and end points then compile?

I can see alot of the "groundworks" for maps being done using the editor then the really smart people polishing them up in hammer anyway, so why not change a "solo" map to "co-op"...

I personally don't really see this happening: polishing this up in hammer is kind of a nightmare, everything is instance, and it's just a big hassle. I can see some small adjustments like different indicator lights, doors, placement helpers but that's it.

If you want to make say a destroyed or even old apperture map this tool just won't be good enough, it's awesome to create clean maps, it's awesome to draft and test basic ideas, but hammer will still be the better tool.

One thing that I see personally is that this is the first step towards the future. Comming first will prolly be co-op maps then having the possibility of doing a theme like clean underground, destroyed, etc..

I also see this tool as a first stepping stone towards getting people to spend cash for say a different theme eg. Behind the Scenes, Reconstructing or adding custom content made by players like in TF2.

I personally would pay to have say a sendificator in a new map or even custom cubes seen in different mods.
Edit: Of course the person who made the item would get a cut of the profits =)

lpfreaky90 wrote:
No, you cannot make coop maps with this. And on release you won't be able to upload coop maps either, though they are planning to fix this later on

There are no doors, but there are laserfields and fizzlers, big panels that can open. So you can still split your rooms into multiple parts!

Yeah I have been coming up with alternatives to doors and redesigning my maps (only on paper so far) to eliminate the need for doors. I would REALLY like it if they made a coop EDITOR, as in real time collaboration, two people building one map simultaneously and capable of testing coop maps.

That would be awesome and revolutionary.

The coop map building was also something that was suggested in the beta, but it's too hard to do
Besides, I think that it requires a lot of communication, most likely voice chat before you are able to even make the smallest changes.

Personally, i think ill stick to hammer. Nothing ive seen so far has convinced me that this map editor will be in any way superior. Ill try it out, but it seems to lack the versatility of hammer, and im not going to be exprting maps from it into hammer if everything is instanced and built on a 64 grid. Its not like its hard to make a quick test-of-concept map in hammer if i want to.

Spam Nugget wrote:
im not going to be exprting maps from it into hammer if everything is instanced and built on a 64 grid.

Well, it's actually a 256 grid so HA! But I can say that the walls aren't instances and can be modified. But each 256x256 wall is one brush so expect a lot of selecting. Although on the bright side, this makes editing textures a bit more easier since I don't have to depend on cutting brushes as much.

When it comes down to it, it all depends on the mapper's mapping methods.
*Try saying that five times fast

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The great thing I see coming out of this is rapid prototyping. I have a hard time developing puzzles entirely on paper, since I can't see them in the 3rd dimension, or test them to see if they work. The editor not only provides these two things, but also makes emergent puzzle design much more possible.

For those unfamiliar with emergent puzzle design, it is basically where you dick around for a while until you find something fun, then build off of it. It's more difficult to do this with Hammer than it will be with the editor, as switching between editing and testing will take less time, and editing in general will be quicker and easier.

The editor may lack the power of Hammer to create worlds, but it makes up for it in its simplicity. It reminds me a bit of the TrackMania level editor(s), really.

lpfreaky90 wrote:
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MasterLagger wrote:
lpfreaky90 wrote:

128x128x128

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No

Spam Nugget wrote:
Personally, i think ill stick to hammer. Nothing ive seen so far has convinced me that this map editor will be in any way superior. Ill try it out, but it seems to lack the versatility of hammer, and im not going to be exprting maps from it into hammer if everything is instanced and built on a 64 grid. Its not like its hard to make a quick test-of-concept map in hammer if i want to.

I think that kinda goes without saying...

It's a simplified version for people that can't use Hammer. Either way, I think everyone has A LOT of new content to look forward to and I'm sure people will be able to make some decent puzzles with this, even if it isn't as advanced a tool as Hammer.