BenVlodgi wrote:
Well the guys at Valve think its perfect... perfect for roughly smashing out new puzzle ideas, which was their goal from the get go.

Now it makes sense. I was under a very different impression of the puzzle creator when I first heard about it being in development.

Quote:
there is no good reason for them to add anything to the PTI, it serves the purpose they intended it to, which is a well rounded puzzle maker, not to be used to replace hammer by any means.

I never said it was supposed to replace Hammer. I said my suggestions should enhance the puzzle creator without going to the extent of being Hammer.

wildgoosespeeder wrote:
BenVlodgi wrote:

Well the guys at Valve think its perfect... perfect for roughly smashing out new puzzle ideas, which was their goal from the get go.

Now it makes sense. I was under a very different impression of the puzzle creator when I first heard about it being in development.

Glad to clear that up.

wildgoosespeeder wrote:
BenVlodgi wrote:

there is no good reason for them to add anything to the PTI, it serves the purpose they intended it to, which is a well rounded puzzle maker, not to be used to replace hammer by any means.

I never said it was supposed to replace Hammer. I said my suggestions should enhance the puzzle creator without going to the extent of being Hammer.

Mods, mods, mods. They wont be updating it.
Also I want to make sure I didn't come off sounding mean throughout this. I just wanted to make sure you knew you will need to use hammer to accomplish these tasks.

wildgoosespeeder wrote:
You just don't get what I'm trying to say. The authoring tools were released weeks later after Portal 2 was released. There was quite a response from the fan community creating their own puzzles with the tools. That's why the puzzle creator was made.

I really see your point... But let me tell you what some others have already told you above. It's you who don't quite get it. First of all, the authoring tools is nothing but a logical tool everyone was waiting for; the same as Valve released the Source SDK for HL, HL2 or Portal, or TF2 or CS or L4D... or the rest of their games. Forget about a "fan community response".

wildgoosespeeder wrote:
My concern is that it may have been released too soon; it just looks rushed to me when more could have easily been done to it.

Excuse me, but that kind of interpretations coming from a guy who can't even create a simple chamber using hammer sounds a bit over yourself. No offense. It's not rushed up: it was kind of easy to implement this tool for Portal2 since they have already developed an SDK for all the rest games... The tool is complete, it has bugs but not more than any other powerful tool of this kind.

wildgoosespeeder wrote:
Hammer is designed to create maps for use in games that use the Source engine to run. The puzzle creator is within the scope of Portal 2.

Hmmm.. that's wrong. The "Portal2 authoring tools" is specifically designed for Portal2 Its hammer contains all its entities, models, scripts and logic for Portal2... Even though it's not so difficult to import/export stuff amongst Source engine games, this tool is obviously for Portal2. Even though hammer is more or less the same tool in every source game, the hammer into the P2AT is specific for Portal2, and there are specific entities for Portal2.

wildgoosespeeder wrote:
Its focus is purely for test chamber creation and nothing else, a perfect way for me and many other players to get test chambers from paper to game very easily. With your logic, Valve should not have made the puzzle creator in the first place. I'm just wondering why it is so basic.

Listen, I think again that you don't get the point of any of the 2 tools: the puzzle creator is made for ppl that don't want complications! Many ppl just want to see their puzzles they sketched in paper or have in their minds, in game; that's all... and you must admit this has been a HUGE success. The P2AT, dude, is made for ppl like YOU Yeah! the puzzle creator is starting to be small for you, or for your creativity...

Man, I love custom stuff and I try to fill the maps I make with a personal style. The Authoring tools is an art tool, you have full control. I assure you that if you would use all this time you're spending in writting all this stuff, you would have learnt a LOT hammer Seriously, is not that hard. The hardest part could be the logic, and how to set each puzzle element up. There are many good tutorials as others have recommendeded already, you can create a chamber full of all portal2 elements perfectly working in 1 week, I dare you.

wildgoosespeeder wrote:
Why does Hammer have to do the aesthetic and timing tweaking parts of a test chamber? Why can't it be the puzzle creator as well? It's not like I want to change themes or something (decay, 1940s, Wheatley, etc.) which would be a better reason to use Hammer.

See? you still don't get it. Because it is not possible! Valve has made each of the puzzle elements FULL of entities (you can see this after decompiling a PTI map and load it in hammer) trying to cover each possible situation. The puzzle creator has been developed so intricately (inside) to make it easy for players/puzzlemakers (on the outside), and there are no "decoration" elements at all... can you imagine including all models for each of the themes, all textures, allow every size for blocks and all possibilities and still fit into an interface that look as friendly as the one the puzzle creator has? and still make each single object to be snapped to a 3D grid? I think that is not possible... it's sort of out of the scope. You have to keep some variables stable to make such a tool like the puzzle creator

Since there is just so much to respond to, I'll just leave you with this: Other games I played that came with a level editor of some kind were way more customizable compared to the Portal 2 Puzzle Editor. What this community is saying is that I want the puzzle creator to be the equivalent of a ROM hacking utility (meaning people are thinking I want the puzzle creator to be Hammer, which I don't). Look, I don't need that much customizability but at the same time I don't want "bare bones" customizability. If people still don't get what I am trying to say, I just don't know how to then.

What we're saying is that it's not really possible to have something in between. Hammer and the Puzzlemaker were built for completely different things. The puzzlemaker is really an interface for Hammer (which is essentially an interface for VBSP, VRAD, and VVIS), but look at how complex a Puzzlemaker map is compared to a Hammer one--almost nobody hits the entity limit when using the latter, for obvious reasons.

Can you think of a better "in-between" way for a 3D editor to work?

FelixGriffin wrote:
Can you think of a better "in-between" way for a 3D editor to work?

yes... take my thoughts and dreams and turn them into fully detailed, 3d models with complete animation pls

FelixGriffin wrote:
What we're saying is that it's not really possible to have something in between.

How? I think it is entirely possible, not directly by us, but rather Valve putting more effort into the programming and design of the puzzle creator, just not to the extent of Hammer (like I keep saying for the billionth time). Oh well, just my thoughts about the puzzle creator, coming from someone wanting to get into the programming field of the video game world. I understand Portal 2 has come and gone and Valve has more important projects to work on.

wildgoosespeeder wrote:
FelixGriffin wrote:

What we're saying is that it's not really possible to have something in between.

How? I think it is entirely possible, not directly by us, but rather Valve putting more effort into the programming and design of the puzzle creator, just not to the extent of Hammer (like I keep saying for the billionth time). Oh well, just my thoughts about the puzzle creator, coming from someone wanting to get into the programming field of the video game world. I understand Portal 2 has come and gone and Valve has more important projects to work on.

not just that... its that they didn't think it was worth it to add more... I asked them directly if they were implementing more features, and this is exactly what they asked me.... What more could we add?(before this becomes a cookie-cutter hammer)...
from the get go Valve wanted to give n00bs the chance to make puzzles, Valve didn't care if you had thee chance to create your own color scheme, they thought in this case simplicity was the best idea. no confused n00bsters and anyone who actually cared enough could just take the 10 hours it takes to learn how to do it in hammer vs them building a whole new program to do an incredibly easy task worse.

BenVlodgi wrote:
not just that... its that they didn't think it was worth it to add more... I asked them directly if they were implementing more features, and this is exactly what they asked me.... What more could we add?(before this becomes a cookie-cutter hammer)...
from the get go Valve wanted to give n00bs the chance to make puzzles, Valve didn't care if you had thee chance to create your own color scheme, they thought in this case simplicity was the best idea. no confused n00bsters and anyone who actually cared enough could just take the 10 hours it takes to learn how to do it in hammer vs them building a whole new program to do an incredibly easy task worse.

Why do I get the feeling I was backstabbed like Valve was a Spy or something?