Texture Problem

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LoneWolf2056
193 Posts
Posted Jan 24, 2013
I noticed 2-3 walls in my latest level have an odd diagonal slash through them, they are just ordinary solid brushes and there is nothing unusual about the way the texture is aligned in hammer, any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Mevious
205 Posts
Posted Jan 24, 2013
Replied 19 minutes later
It sort of looks like an issue with reflections. It's possible that the engine is splitting the rectangular surface into two triangles and then using a different cubemap for each triangle? I can't say I've ever seen this before though. If you have a cubemap close by, you could try assigning it to that surface and see if it changes anything.
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LoneWolf2056
193 Posts
Posted Jan 24, 2013
Replied 54 minutes later
Thanks Mevious, I tried but it didnt work so I didnt compile the cubemaps at all and its still there. It affects 5 brush faces all of which are in the same room. Its weird the cut is always that same angle because one of the brushes is 256 units across but the slash only covers 128 units on the left so it isnt slicing the entire brush.

EDIT Just put a func_viscluster in the room and that didnt work either, although I didnt see any unusually shaped visleafs anyway.

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FelixGriffin
2,680 Posts
Posted Jan 24, 2013
Replied 2 hours later
Could it be a vertex texture? Those are meant to be rendered on triangles.
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josepezdj
2,386 Posts
Posted Jan 25, 2013
Replied 4 hours later
Well, I've had the same texture issue a lot of times :biggrin: Overall in Da-Mask, and it was even worse because the textures I used were plain and those triangles were more noticeable.

Due to the places I found that bad lighting in, I suspected they were caused by shadows casted during VRAD compile. For example:

img

I corrected it (in a TON of places in this map) by turning the brush into a func_brush setting "Disable Receiving Shadows" to YES.

I hope that helps! (do not get too mad at that kind of manic stuff because you could end up crazy! like me :biggrin:)

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LoneWolf2056
193 Posts
Posted Jan 25, 2013
Replied 7 hours later
No its not a vertex texture.
Thanks Josepezdj, suppose it doesnt matter too much, it is set in the destroyed theme so it kinda makes it look the tile is cracked but yea best not going too crazy trying to fix every little detail :lol:
I will try changing the lighting and func_brushing though.

EDIT: Func_brush + Disable receiving shadows worked, thanks Josepezdj :thumbup:

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josepezdj
2,386 Posts
Posted Jan 25, 2013
Replied 4 hours later
I'm glad to hear, my friend :thumbup:
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ChickenMobile
2,460 Posts
Posted Jan 26, 2013
Replied 15 hours later
I always wondered what caused that. I thought it might have been a cubemap issue.

I'm curious now. Does it still happen if you assign a face to a cubemap?

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LoneWolf2056
193 Posts
Posted Jan 27, 2013
Replied 23 hours later

ChickenMobile wrote:
I always wondered what caused that. I thought it might have been a cubemap issue.

I'm curious now. Does it still happen if you assign a face to a cubemap?

Nah I tried that, and if you don't build cubemaps at all its still there, assume its just a weird shadow problem then cause func_brushing, disable receiving shadows fixed it perfectly

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HMW
806 Posts
Posted Jan 29, 2013
Replied 2 days later
It might still be related to cubemaps, even if you don't insert or build them.

A lot of Portal 2 materials have their own standard cubemap, which is always the same in each map. (Kind of annoying, since it doesn't adapt to the environment, but that's a whole 'nother issue.)

I have exactly that same crack in one of my maps and it just refuses to go away. Incidentally, it's a wall above a button base, just like you have there. I wonder if the brushes in the button base have something to do with it?

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ChickenMobile
2,460 Posts
Posted Jan 29, 2013
Replied 6 hours later
Are the button bases func_detail?
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LoneWolf2056
193 Posts
Posted Jan 29, 2013
Replied 23 minutes later

ChickenMobile wrote:
Are the button bases func_detail?

Yea but it happened on some other brushes that didnt have one of them next to it as well

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ChickenMobile
2,460 Posts
Posted Jan 30, 2013
Replied 2 hours later
I have a feeling that it might have to do something with the brush being warped somehow and it added in an extra face to the wall to compensate for it.

When you see this error, type in mat_wireframe 1. I cant duplicate this error whatsoever :S.

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LoneWolf2056
193 Posts
Posted Jan 30, 2013
Replied 10 hours later
Picture Notes (brush on the left is affected, brush on the right is not, though its pretty obvious xD)

Actually you may be correct about func_detail, the other 2 brushes are next to the door frame which is func_detail. It was a little tricky to see with mat_wireframe 1 so this is mat_wireframe 2

It doesnt do it around all func_detail objects though and there are other door frames and button bases where it is fine. In a map im working on, one brush in the entire level is affected and its next to a func_detail that isnt even an unusual shape.

Also the reason I didnt fix those last 2 was because in Mevious' playthrough I noticed the indicator lights were gone even though they were fine in hammer, didnt realise func_brushes cant have overlays. Im not too worried, doesnt stand out too much in the destroyed style and as josepezdj says you could go crazy trying to fix every last detail in hammer :lol:

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HMW
806 Posts
Posted Jan 30, 2013
Replied 3 hours later
Oh, so it's the T-junction fixer that's doing it.

That is a part of the compiling process that splits faces to remove T-junctions, which cause seams to appear between faces. Maybe one of those door vertices is just very slightly off-grid and skews the triangle next to it.

My 'weird wall' is next to a door frame too. Coincidentally, it's the only door frame in the whole map that I rotated after collapsing its instance. Lets try if the problem goes away if I reinsert the instance at the correct angle and re-collapse it...

Edit: Aaaaand we have our prime suspect. In my case, it turned out to be this ball button instance. (Notice the non-integer dimensions.)

unhealthy func_detail.png

Let's have a closer look at the corner:

eww.png

If this touches a flat surface, it will warp it due to the aforementioned T-junction fixing.
So wherever you get this problem, follow the wireframe lines to any standard instance nearby (or anything collapsed or otherwise derived from one) and you will likely find the culprit.

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josepezdj
2,386 Posts
Posted Jan 30, 2013
Replied 1 hour later
Awesome find! Thanks Chicken and HMW for your perseverance! :thumbup: And ofc LoneWolf to go deeper into this :wink:

Everything well noted!

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LoneWolf2056
193 Posts
Posted Jan 30, 2013
Replied 4 hours later
Thanks HMW just checked and that was exactly the case on every affected brush, the tiniest vertex nudge on grid size one and it was fine without the need to func_brush, I have since edited the cube button shell, at least I can blame valves shoddy brushwork rather than my own :lol:
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ChickenMobile
2,460 Posts
Posted Jan 30, 2013
Replied 2 hours later

LoneWolf2056 wrote:
I can blame valves shoddy brushwork rather than my own :lol:

Damn them. Making our walls slit diagonally n stuff.

Then again, this error now makes complete sense when you tie the wall to an entity instead of leaving it in world geometry. Func_details are just world brushes that vvis ignores.

So I hope this serves as a lesson. Always align to the grid - or prepare for unforseen consequences.

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josepezdj
2,386 Posts
Posted Jan 31, 2013
Replied 7 hours later
Wouold "smoothing groups" help with this weird cuttings and bad lighting/shadowing on brushes' surfaces? I remember I discovered this feature a while back when I was making The Second Exodus and I used it for every slanted brush I made (which was func_detailed btw)... and I don't remember to see this kind of weird stuff in the whole map...

I use to make my own button supports or door frames (and all the rest of brush work) and I am specially careful with all vertices, merging and snapping to the grid everything... so I can't understand why sometimes this simply appears...

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LoneWolf2056
193 Posts
Posted Jan 31, 2013
Replied 29 minutes later

ChickenMobile wrote:
LoneWolf2056 wrote:

I can blame valves shoddy brushwork rather than my own :lol:

Damn them. Making our walls slit diagonally n stuff.

Then again, this error now makes complete sense when you tie the wall to an entity instead of leaving it in world geometry. Func_details are just world brushes that vvis ignores.

So I hope this serves as a lesson. Always align to the grid - or prepare for unforseen consequences.

The worst bit is how small they are off grid, its about 1/100th of one single unit off that point, its not even noticeable until you zoom in so far that size 1 grid units are huge. Still enough for hammer to get freaked, and yes, "Always align to the grid" a valuable lesson... that valve needs to learn :lol: