File Size: 4.17 MB
Downloads: 7827
Rating: (33 votes)
Description
Two puzzles, more coming soon.
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I dunno if it's possible yet or not, but I'm trying to angle the cube on that random mound of grass in the laser chamber so that it faces...I guess i can say 45 degrees upward in order to hit the laser receiver. I'ts a huge pain and I've yet to succeed, is this the correct method?
ciaspy123 wrote:
I dunno if it's possible yet or not, but I'm trying to angle the cube on that random mound of grass in the laser chamber so that it faces...I guess i can say 45 degrees upward in order to hit the laser receiver. I'ts a huge pain and I've yet to succeed, is this the correct method?
I just looked up and dropped the cube at the same time so it flips in mid air, then pushed it along (without using the gun) so the laser faced upwards, then I held the 2nd cube above it with my portal gun.
AutomaticCoding wrote:
I just looked up and dropped the cube at the same time so it flips in mid air, then pushed it along (without using the gun) so the laser faced upwards, then I held the 2nd cube above it with my portal gun.
That's the way I intended it, except I stood on the cube and crouch-walked backwards so it flipped up.
This has a very nice style to it, and the transitions with the moving panels are very well done. I like where this is going quite a bit, but how you go about having the player figure it out is where I think this goes wrong.
SPOILERS AHEAD. Why is BBCode off? Do I have to enable it somewhere? Gonna go try and root this out.... in the meantime, dont read the rest of this if you want to avoid spoilers.
For puzzle 1: You almost force the player to die at least once to figure this out. You have no idea that theres a portal waiting on the top wall when you go through. At first I tried to sneak a portal past the field to the first back wall before noticing the portalable wall above it.
For puzzle 2: There has to be a better way of achieving the vertical laser without just relying on slopes and luck. What I ended up doing was placing the cube on top of the laser relay and having it fall pointing upward, then just raised the last cube above my head to point it at the catcher.
What I would suggest is that you use portalable surfaces in such a way that allows the player to drop the cube through it and reliably land the cube pointing upward instead of trying to rely on the physics and a round object to do the trick.
What makes puzzles fun is figuring them out, not necessarily the execution thereafter. It shouldnt be so hard to do once they've figured out what to do, unless you plan on making a twitch based level, then tell the player that before hand.
Keep up the good work! I'm looking forward to more puzzles in the future!
No spoiler needed, it took a while to figure out your puzzle - nice work... Not too hard to hit the laser target but was sort of random nudging it etc....still very well done... 
I too like where this is going, great start. I liked having to figure out the first one myself. I'll keep an eye on this one 
Excellent level, NightGunner!
I love the aesthetic, and the puzzles were fun.
I respectfully disagree with you Neoxx, in my opinion trial and (fatal) error is an essential part of puzzle games.
However you do have a point with making a distinction between logic puzzles and execution puzzles.
But again, personally I would say that any good puzzle should feature elements of both logic and execution.
Looking forward to playing more of this map in the future!
Really enjoyed the puzzle.
My Experience with the Maps
The first part was evil, I kept trying to find a way to go underneath the field till I had to admit it was impossible (the low white tiles were cruelly misleading). - So I figured if I can't go under - go over and finally understood what the little slit at the top was hinting at.
The second part was more mind bending and actually taught me how the lightboxes work - something the main game never really did - eg. it's focused out through a single lens. it's the first time I really looked at them instead of "Grab, point lazer at X, move on"
After about 5 mins of insanity I decided that mound was a false trail. Instead I dropped it on the edge of the pass through lazer switch so it faced upwards and then pushed it into the lazer, got hold of the second lightbox then held it above the lazer and aimed at the receiver. Crouched and jumped - triggering it.
(Edited - now with spolier button)
I did not really enjoy this map. It seems to be harder to execute the puzzles rather than to figure them out, which isn't realy what puzzle games are about. Some people might enjoy this, but for a lot of people this would just get frustrating.
Loved it, short and sweat. By the way, your paneling work is utterly delicious. Hope you don't mind if I decompile and see how you set it up (I tried a bit in my map, so far it hasn't worked out).
My thoughts on puzzles
I had no issue on the first puzzle, I saw there was toxic water and knew straight away I'd probably die on a first try, but I don't mind that. As long as I don't repeatedly die over and over trying to 'luck' complete the challenge.
I had issues with the laser cubes, I knew they basically projected the source in the direction of the lens, my issue was aiming it and I thought, it required constant power (not just a burst of energy and then lost contact).
What I suggest is you set 2 tiles down that show where the cube should be placed, then people will figure out it needs to be there, just needs to be flipped.
Beer-Me wrote:
Loved it, short and sweat.
Uh... You might want to check your spelling there.
Beer-Me wrote:
By the way, your paneling work is utterly delicious. Hope you don't mind if I decompile and see how you set it up (I tried a bit in my map, so far it hasn't worked out).
Go right ahead
Beer-Me wrote:
My thoughts on puzzles
||I had no issue on the first puzzle, I saw there was toxic water and knew straight away I'd probably die on a first try, but I don't mind that. As long as I don't repeatedly die over and over trying to 'luck' complete the challenge.I had issues with the laser cubes, I knew they basically projected the source in the direction of the lens, my issue was aiming it and I thought, it required constant power (not just a burst of energy and then lost contact).
What I suggest is you set 2 tiles down that show where the cube should be placed, then people will figure out it needs to be there, just needs to be flipped.||
I will darken a few tiles in the laser puzzle, as well slow down the excursion beam.
>> Damn you had to quote that!
You do panels in a very smart way (using panel*) or something, and you also use FireUser1 which I didn't, thanks to you I now have a working panel
Edit:
I do have a problem with when the map originally loads, the panel arm is in the right position, but the func_brush is at a weird angle. Heres a screenshot - Ideas?
Beer-Me wrote:
I do have a problem with when the map originally loads, the panel arm is in the right position, but the func_brush is at a weird angle. Heres a screenshot - Ideas?
You should have the panel in the correct position in hammer and use a logic_auto to SetParentAttachmentMaintainOffset the brush to panel_attach.
Nightgunner5 wrote:
Beer-Me wrote:I do have a problem with when the map originally loads, the panel arm is in the right position, but the func_brush is at a weird angle. Heres a screenshot - Ideas?
You should have the panel in the correct position in hammer and use a logic_auto to SetParentAttachmentMaintainOffset the brush to panel_attach.
I had that, for some reason it doesn't work well when you set it to a prop_floor_cube_button. I had it so when its set to unpressed it would start the animation.
Got it to work fine with a regular button.
Beer-Me wrote:
I had that, for some reason it doesn't work well when you set it to a prop_floor_cube_button. I had it so when its set to unpressed it would start the animation.Got it to work fine with a regular button.
Maybe you have the outputs wrong? I took the liberty to crack open your BSP and have a look:
prop_floor_cube_button
My Output Target Entity Target Input Parameter
OnPressed hidden_cube SetAnimation 90deg_in_cornerback
OnUnpressed hidden_cube SetAnimation 90deg_cornerback_icle
And since prop_floor_cube_button starts with a cube on top of it, this implies the panel will move when the level loads, and then eventually switch to a different position when the cube is removed (without animating, since it's a one frame idle animation).
Maybe you swapped these two outputs since I downloaded the map and it still doesn't work, or maybe this was the problem. I don't know.
Edit:
So, I went ahead and switched those two outputs, so that it now looks like this:
prop_floor_cube_button
My Output Target Entity Target Input Parameter
OnUnpressed hidden_cube SetAnimation 90deg_in_cornerback
OnPressed hidden_cube SetAnimation 90deg_cornerback_icle
It now works as expected, the panel starts closed, and the room is hidden, when you grab the cube it opens up and you can retrieve the third cube from the hidden room.
Puzzles were fun.
You need to go back and check/fix your lighting in spots. In the screenshot below, at least with my graphics settings, the ceiling above the funnel looks grayish and nonportalable, but it clearly is, so this is a bit misleading. The wall to the left is extremely bright.
http://i.imgur.com/ZXEGm.jpg
Consider making your observation room lights dimmer and adding the recessed light strips behind glass in places the observation room light doesn't cover so well.
Other options for adding more light include removing ceiling tiles, replacing them with the metal frame static models and using the bts fluorescent lights behind that.
It looks pretty fancy but I have to agree about things being more tricky than cunning. The first part was getting irritating dying all the time just to learn. If there was just floor and not death you land on the puzzle wouldn't be too tricky at all. It's just the fact that you barely have time to portal and see that makes it hard. That said, still looks great. Even the pile of snot you balance the box on!
Hey guys, I'm new in this forum so you might think I'm just advertising myself. But I wanna say I really enjoyed this custom map, the last puzzle was a real pain in the ass, and that's what portal is all about, right? hahaha
So I liked it that much that I even made a Youtube commentary (it's basically me solving the puzzles and sayin "umm", "huh", "argh!" the whole video), So I'll leave the video.
QxrhUpfUN28
It's part of the reason "bigspoiler" exists. --msleeper
Poor puzzles: first has a white wall pretty easy to miss, otherwise the simplest; the second really, really easy. Mapper can keep working on this stuff and do wonders, but please leave the one error\death conditions to a minimum imo...
I'm not sure what part in your map pack this map is going to be in, but the opening excursion funnel puzzle is pretty tough and has no margin for error. You said earlier in the thread that you are going to slow it down, I'm not sure if you have done that yet or not.
I really like these puzzles that require you to angle redirection cubes upwards, but I wish maps would show this technique to the player before it's employed into a full puzzle. The Unknown did this too and I didn't realize it was the "right" solution until after some real trial and error. Teaching a concept that isn't taught to the players in the main game goes a long way to keeping confusion down.
Cube turning got issues though. Personally, I'm used to it from HL2 yet still got limits, like I would never force players to manage a diagonal setup of the cubes. But new players? Is it really cool to force them to turn cubes by otherwordly tricks? Maybe it's best to wait for the hydra controls refinement for that.
But it's really easy to get it to turn up. You just need to balance the edge of the cube on any object (in this case, the little glass thing that the laser has to go through) and when you release it, it'll tip over facing up.
I'm not saying it's hard to do, I'm just saying that some players might not understand what you have to do since this technique was never done in the game.
Oh, no, I wasn't referring to your post- I agree with you, actually. New techniques should always have 'training' chambers (then again, I do enjoy being innovative with solutions every once in a while. Regardless, I meant more of xdiesp's post, since it does seem to imply difficulty... I might have misunderstood, in retrospect.)
But if every custom map had a cube tipping tutorial it'd get pretty annoying, wouldn't it? I don't think there's anything wrong with targeting a more experienced player.
It takes a single room to show players "hey you can point lasers up by doing this", I don't think it's unreasonable to include that if redirecting lasers upwards is a core part of your map.
I really liked the idea that you have to point the laser upwards. What I didn't like is the execution. It seemed like I'm using a bug to solve the puzzle. I know, it's stupid that the player can't just turn a cube upwards, but I would try to find more simpler way to turn it. One that doesn't depend on luck (tossing the cube and hoping it would fall right or similar).
Here's an idea: Make a panel that rotates 90 degrees when a button is pressed. So player has to put the cube on the panel and then press the button and the panel will turn the cube so it's facing upwards (that depends on how the player puts the cube on, of course but that can be nice part of the puzzle). And just use another cube to aim at that one, and you got much more user friendly puzzle. But still not that obvious (of course now it is because everyone knows that the core of the map is pointing the laser upwards )
cheers
msleeper wrote:
It takes a single room to show players "hey you can point lasers up by doing this", I don't think it's unreasonable to include that if redirecting lasers upwards is a core part of your map.
It's not unreasonable. It's also not unreasonable for a mapper to try to cater to a more experienced crowd. It depends on what they're trying to do. You know, where does it stop? I know that the 20th time I ran into a new map to see ye olde prism tipping training puzzle sitting beside ye olde cube tossing training puzzle sitting beside ye olde fling crouch training puzzle I'd be pretty much puking over ye olde keyboarde. Maybe I'm alone there. I have a weak stomach.
No you're right, it absolutely depends on who the map is designed for. If a map is designed for more experienced players then that is totally fine. I just try and point out things like this in general so that the mapper can make their map reach a broader audience. The only reason I think it's worth teaching is, again, because it is never done in the retail game, and people who are playing the map who aren't hardcore gamers might not really understand what you are supposed to do.
But yeah, if a map isn't worried about leaving that subset of players confused then there's nothing stopping you from going into cube-flip puzzles hung ho.
Yeah I know, I was just giving an example.. I's really not hard to execute it. It just looks, I don't know, like thats not what you should be able to do in Portal. For me at least...
I saw a video of a guy doing some insane tricks with a cube and half of it just looks like bugs... jumping of a cube in midair.. I would hate a map where the solution would be something like that.
That's probably just me, I just like it clean.
Nevertheless I think this was the first custom map I played, and for me it was the proof that there will be great custom content for Portal 2. And I totally support original ideas like this one (just a bit cleaner )
CraigChrist wrote:
I saw a video of a guy doing some insane tricks with a cube and half of it just looks like bugs... jumping of a cube in midair.. I would hate a map where the solution would be something like that.
A lot of Portal 1 maps require you to know various bugs/glitches, and spoiler, they really fucking sucked to play. I hope there aren't maps that require usage of glitches.
I didn't really like the laser puzzle much as I thought it was a bit too fiddly. It was a bit like in a couple of Portal 1 maps that involved cube flinging and the cubes would often not go straight through the portals.
But at this point, would your expert audience notice any significative difference between regular and vertical flipping? Because if they aren't fazed, you have both alienated the others and unimpressed these.
Consider a fan like me, used to this stuff from HL2. I don't consider it any special... indifferent to me whether I should turn the cubes up or right. And puzzle wise, Portal 2 gives you already the full spectrum of actions performable with the cubes. Still want that ray to go up? Use a portal, or moving parts, or even better do that same puzzle on the horizontal plane as intended.
Imho you have to leave the frame of mind that these forced mechanics add another layer of complexity: they just make you do the same stuff, in a different glitched way that fewer know. Remember how smooth the puzzles in coop are: our goal should be to be as interesting as those, not to do less with more self-imposed hardships.
I started playing custom maps and record me playing them. It's neither a perfect run nor do I have to have solved the map in the way it's meant to solve it. I play the maps "blind", that means I've never been in them before and play them for the very first time. I also give a little feedback for the map in the video description.
Maybe you are interested in the fact, that I played your map: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN7gVYG708I
I love this map - when is part 2 coming?
For those who are saying they don't like it because it takes luck or anything like that, that's simply not true. See below why:
I can get the cube to point up 100% of the time, that's not luck it's technique.
To know what the technique is read below
[
You simply have to walk toward the cube and right before you hit it jump and it will rotate the cube 90 degrees every time.
Too short, the puzzles were easy to do but not easy to see, but mainly, just not any fun. You have good ideas about puzzle making, but I think you need to consider how the player will feel about the puzzle when they're done. I felt disappointed, so just a 3/5 from me.
Two puzzles, more coming soon.
File Name: n5_sequential01.bsp
File Size: 4.17 MiB
Click here to download Sequential: Part 1