Engineer - A map designed to make you think.

Portal 2 is, at its heart, a puzzle game. Graphics; story; environment -- all of these are good but secondary.

I finished the masterpiece of Portal 2 but was left wanting more: a deeper puzzle, with intrigue and interlocking chambers, that required strategy, intuition, and ingenuity. I want to be challeged so that I am rewarded with a well-earned feeling of victory.

Combining logic with creativity is the quintessential essence of what Portal 2 maps should be all about, and in Engineer I believe I have recaptured that ideal.

It is my hope that upon completion, Engineer will stand out in your mind as unique, and that the fundamental puzzle design it presents is carried forth by the many others far more skilled in map-building than I.

Notes:
- It is possible to do things that make the puzzle unsolvable. However, I have added many "safety exits" (as fizzlers) which reduces this. You never need to pass through a fizzler to solve this puzzle - they are intended for emergency use.
- Engineer is not a tedious map. There are many solutions, but none are trivial, and if you find yourself repeating anything over and over again, it is not the correct solution. Just take a step back, and ponder the tools you have been given.
- Solution has been provided as a demo file, included. See Readme.txt for instructions.

File Name: engineer-1.4.1.zip
File Size: 5.25 MiB
Click here to download Engineer

Good map i recommend you reposistion the button for creating a portal wall at end of excursion as when you excusion up to the hole again the tunnel moves the cube off the button preventing you from getting bakc up as easily. maybe a glass wall or tuck it round a corner

Aw, took me 51 minutes
Most challenging map so far!

Can take some days or even weeks until I find time to upload the recording, because it will have a huge size (I only make 1080p videos!) and I will need to have quite some time to upload it when I'm in university. Gonna repost then.

Took me more than an hour & I still havent solved it.
Its not even fun anymore, just annoying.
Got stuck so many times.
I probably wont try again.

I aknowledge the progress made so far, but until the no escape scenarios are dealt with, I'm afraid the project remains crippled. There's awesome maps requiring 1-2 hours to solve (Edifice, Distracted by Love), and none do that.

Just out of curiosity, wouldn't you try it as COOP? The forcible deaths would be overlooked then.

bmaster2000 wrote:
Good map i recommend you reposistion the button for creating a portal wall at end of excursion as when you excusion up to the hole again the tunnel moves the cube off the button preventing you from getting bakc up as easily. maybe a glass wall or tuck it round a corner

My bad; I added a glass wall in 1.3.3. I previously added a convenient light bridge in the main room to be used for getting to the top, not the funnel. Now, both are valid.

xdiesp wrote:
I aknowledge the progress made so far, but until the no escape scenarios are dealt with, I'm afraid the project remains crippled.

I think I solved a lot of the trickier "no escape scenarios" and added autosaves in intelligent positions. I don't see how people are getting stuck now. Yes, it's possible, but shouldn't be very common unless doing something where you will be obviously trapped, and notice immediately (and then reload the autosave).

Personally, I prefer a map where you have to at least think a bit before doing something to ensure that it's a good idea and you aren't doing something dumb. This could be considered quicksave management, a meta-element of puzzle design.

Quote:
There's awesome maps requiring 1-2 hours to solve (Edifice, Distracted by Love), and none do that.

I never actually got myself into a position where I had to use one of the "un-stuck yourself" features in either of these maps.

Also, Edifice is long because it is a series of chambers, none of which is itself very difficult.

Distracted by Love is long because you initially have no idea what you're supposed to be doing. I spent 20 minutes trying to get into a pointless area above the blue gel before finally realizing there was nothing up there at all.

Engineer is a single chamber that makes the goal clear: Retrieve the cubes and laser.

Quote:
Just out of curiosity, wouldn't you try it as COOP? The forcible deaths would be overlooked then.

Co-op maps prove harder to build since with 4 portals the options are almost limitless. I will work on a co-op map in the future (featuring the Combine Ball from Portal 1). It will take at least a week of design to do right, though.

Personally, I really enjoyed this map - maybe it's because I'm almost done with my engineering degree, har har. I didn't have problems with getting stuck anywhere (I did fall victim to the funnel once) but then again I was pretty cautious and tried to think ahead. I probably would have boned myself a few times without the warning.

I took more than an hour and still think that my solution was not perfect - I must have used the light bridge to climb up the wall at least five times... though that was more than necessary since I'd forgotten an important prior step twice (putting the cube up on the ledge first).

I can't seem to locate your demo file - you said to check the readme for details, but I can't see a readme anywhere in the zip I downloaded.

Quote:
Distracted by Love is long because you initially have no idea what you're supposed to be doing. I spent 20 minutes trying to get into a pointless area above the blue gel before finally realizing there was nothing up there at all.

Engineer is a single chamber that makes the goal clear: Retrieve the cubes and laser.

Actually I felt like this map was really confusing about where I was supposed to go and what order I should do stuff in, etc., because the layout is really spread out.

I'm sure a lot of time, effort, and patience went into making this. I would never be able to come close to matching this. Great job.

JonMW wrote:
I can't seem to locate your demo file - you said to check the readme for details, but I can't see a readme anywhere in the zip I downloaded.

I actually just added the demo file and readme in version 1.3.3 -- If you'd like to see it, go ahead and download the map again, and it will be in there.

The constant deaths and inescapable sections mar an otherwise cool map, it probably would be better if you changed it for co-op.

Isn't moving upwards with the light bride a game exploit?

Also the entrance elevators do not fix the level. The textures are all messed up shifting wise. The glass construct looks bad.

TopHATTwaffle wrote:
Isn't moving upwards with the light bride a game exploit?

Not at all.

It would be an exploit if you had to use it, to, say, move a box upwards. That wouldn't make sense because the light bridge is penetrating the box, moving it upwards by displacement.

However, if the player jumps, and then places a new bridge below him which is higher than the previous one, and then lands on it, it is not an exploit.

I have tested the wall-jumping to ensure that it is possible to place the bridge high enough in all cases to make it possible to jump to the next one without requiring penetration-displacement.

Quote:
Also the entrance elevators do not fix the level. The textures are all messed up shifting wise. The glass construct looks bad.

I'm not quite sure what it means to say "the entrance elevators do not fix the level". Those were added as a requirement for the Mapping Initiative. Also, the run-down textures transitioning to the nicer, cleaner textures makes the first small hallway before the main room look more in-place (as a medium transition).

And, yes, the glass construct does look bad. It's useful, though.

Thanks for the feedback

I'm playing custom maps and record my first time of playing them. So the run is not perfect and may not use only intended ways, but maybe it can let you see how other people may understand the map or you could just enjoy someone playing this map for entertainment.
Anyways, here is the recording:

1kKXMvIjKtY
(Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kKXMvIjKtY)

Also note the video description for more feedback and my signature for additional project information.

Thanks Djinndrache; this should be entertaining to watch.

I'm very pleased that you enjoyed the puzzle

This map is a dream come true. You managed to find an evil trick and (more importantly) hide it in the map (I really thought that 4th cube is there just to irritate me and is in fact unobtainable. This puzzle would be no problem for me if I had that cube.) After some amount of time I finally concluded that it has no solution (You need 3 cubes for the funnel and one cube to keep the door open, but the 4th cube is clearly impossible to get.) I knew there could be a solution by bringing all three cubes to the place where the 4th cube is, standing on two of them and throwing the 3rd cube, but that seemed to me to be extremely difficult and definitely not the intended solution. Congratulations! I wish I hadn't seen the solution, but It's my own fault that I couldn't resist.
Some remarks:

Did you know you can get that cube you are supposed to cover in blue gel without covering it in blue gel? It's not easy to perform and it involves bunny hopping (initial position is here: http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/59581 ... 815E24F92/, so I think you shouldn't be concerned.

Also you can get easily stuck like this:
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/59581 ... 48226D9CD/

There is an (too) easy solution to the part where you get the 2nd cube:
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/59581 ... A6CC761CD/
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/59581 ... B64D936CE/
- just jump into the orange portal

You can get stuck in doors:
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/59581 ... 31A1BCE59/
- (the excursion funnel can move the cube away from the button)
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/59581 ... 4504FFAD2/
- (grab the cube sitting on the button and quickly go back to the door)
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/59581 ... E5032038A/
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/59581 ... 5D1D6724A/

I think that doors shouldn't close if you are standing in them. At least they should kill you if they do close.

Thanks for your feedback, 2CAE7256!

It would be pretty evil and frustrating to make the map unsolvable, and your assessment that all 4 cubes are required is indeed correct. I also deliberately made it difficult to obtain the blue gel cube without covering it in blue gel. By forcing blue gel here, I am hoping that this connects with the existence of the cage in the first room to create a subtle hint that the blue gel blue is intended and useful. After this, someone might correctly apply it to obtain the fourth cube.

Quote:
There is an (too) easy solution to the part where you get the 2nd cube:

Ha! I never realized this was the correct height for that. Amazing.

Thanks for all of these items you have found. Enlightening! And, I'm very glad that you did enjoy the map

I enjoyed this map! And I like the philosophy that you outlined in your original post. I agree that Portal 2 was lacking in this sort of cerebral puzzle that really challenges you. Admittedly it took me quite a long time to complete, even with the help of a friend.

Some comments:
There are some bits of perspex at an angle below the emancipation grilles. If you step between them then you are permanently stuck; you can't even jump.

We did get into unwinnable states a lot. Careful management of both portal placement and save games is necessary. One of the most annoying was when we first went into the excursion funnel. This traps you at the end of the tunnel; we expected a side corridor or something.

We really enjoyed getting the blue box to knock off the other box, and it took ages to think of this. I agree that it was fairly well clued, but it was still an immensely satisfying 'eureka' moment.

Every point made is absolutely correct.

One of these says, (read: between now and the end of time) I will go through and fix this up so that you can't get stuck anymore. I even have some good ideas on how to do it. But when I sit down to do it, my changes seem to create even more places where you can get stuck >:-|

In any case, I'm glad that you enjoyed the map, and yes - I tried to preserve the 'eureka' moments. It's perfectly fine and normal for the map to take awhile. There is no shame in that.

Ryan

[5/5]

I have no idea if this is right what i?m doing, because it?s my first post.
You have done a really great job with this map. I got disappointed while playing the regular Portal 2 because of its easy levels and maps. I?ve done the last level about 3 or 4 times trying to shoot somewhere else then the bloddy earth just in fact i didn?t realize that the game was over...
It?s because people of you i am still playing Portal 2. Really hard puzzles. Yes.
You?ve done a good job. It took me about 2 hours to solve everything by my own and I am also proud of that I?ve got 3 of 4 boxes with the intended solution. After 1,5 hours I first realized that there is a fourth box (that one in the glass box, which you get down by letting a "blue" one fraking around....

And yes indeed. Like others also realized - this is maybe the hardest map I?ve played. But it was a challenge.
More of this. Of yours. And not the boring original Valve-stuff.

Absolutely essential map.

Like a good movie which story is totally unknown by you (because you hate trailers that say too much and learnt not to watch them if you already decided that you'll watch that movie), this map goes showing its tricky plot and high level of intelligent little by little, and makes you think a lot, becoming better and better while you play through.

As Mr. Ruien says, portal is a puzzle game, rest elements like graphics, story and environment are secondary (I dedicate this thought to my friend Vugs). And this map is specifically that: its twisted, sober, intriguing and clever... specially for those like me who likes to think, problem solving, and those who found in portal a new way of getting excited after that sense of victory after finishing one hard difficulty map (this one has got that awesome ending with the sudden music that goes inside your heart and make it beat faster!).

My congratulations to Ruien, one of the few maps that really made me stare in front of the computer for around 2 hours of walkaround and good thinking, most of that time for realizing that the damn 4th cube was totally necessary for finishing the map!!! and then you remember there was upon a time a blue cube that could be useful for bringing that cube down... and you go and paint it again (once clean)... and the beautiful and funny love relationship with the blue cube begins.... I really admire people who are capable of imaging and developing such this intelligent puzzles, because I'm not sure of how will I even start for...

After all, I realized that I never used the second hard light bridge in the main room. I'm not sure if it's easier or harder doing my way or not, the fact is that I needed the cubes and couldn't leave any one pressing the red button of the bridge device; and I found that it was always easier to bring the bridge from the beginning... YESSSS... I KNOWWW... I've made like 5-6 times the first puzzleeeee.... so what?. Perhaps you could still make a challenge version of this already-challenging map...

I've recorded a video to show my solution. It's my first video recording and editting (thanks to Xdiesp for his help). I hope you Ruien enjoy it.

Thank you so much for mapping!

qXs-oB7EB7s

Pretty good and hard map, though i had to resort to watching the demo. I didn't try flinging to get through that glass entrance but tried to bridge the gap, jump and remove the bridge and hopefully land there.

Also, i didn't think about using the covered cube to knock the 4th over. I really should have realized that seeing those seemingly unused cages.

Hope to see more maps from you.

Berra, josepezdj, & Saturn --

Thank you all for your kind words! I am moved and deeply happy that you enjoyed this map. It was fun to make, as I imagined all the pieces together. In the future, when I am inspired once again, I will try to do another.

Also -- yes, josepezdj, you are correct; the second light bridge (in the third room) is not necessary to solve the puzzle. I added it later to help save time so that you do not have to solve the first room puzzle "five or six times". But if you are missing one cube, then I can see why you would not use it.

Also, if you liked my puzzle, I would also recommend trying Psicodelia. I had a lot of fun with this one as well.

Some day I hope there are more of these "deep puzzle maps". We could make a nice collection of them.

To Ruien:

Thank you very much for your reply and also for recommending Psicodelia. In fact, I liked much Psicodelia (the first version and also final version 1.3). Very intelligent, and amazing look! Carlymx made a really great job there and I found really emotional the dedication to his father.

About that collection you mentioned, well, why don't we open a new thread in fact about it? We could call it DEEP PUZZLE MAPS as you said. Here all people who, like us, really enjoy the deep concept of puzzle in portal, would make reviews of these special puzzle we found clever and hard because of the puzzle solving tasks involved. I think this is a good idea. Just let me know what you think and let's do it!

In fact I would take this opportunity to mention, and highly recommend you, a campaign created by Mr. Robert Gibson AKA Nyskrte called NYS-5 composed by 5 big maps. It's still a WIP campaign, but 1 to 4 are nearly finished; the 5th not released yet. The quality, creativity and cleverness of the puzzles here are simply BRILLIANT. I really enjoyed each of them and I'm impatiently waiting for the final map (with boss included!!). Just try and comment:

http://forums.thinking.withportals.com/downloads.php?view=detail&df_id=955

Best regards, and THANKS FOR MAPPING... truly.

I really loved this puzzle, even though I had to play the demo to see the one part of the puzzle that had me baffled. I never made the connection between the button and the funnel end panel, despite the sign and lights. I think if you made the end of the funnel tunnel out of glass so that you can see the end, it might be better. A fizzler on the side would prevent players from getting stuck without breaking the puzzle.

Speaking of glass, I would clean up that area of this map; it's quite a mess. Put a border around the hole in the glass, or put an opaque floor under the walkway.

I like that there is more than one way to skin this cat. After I saw the funnel end in the demo, I went back to the map and finished it on my own. I then watched the entire demo, and saw that I had done more than a few things differently than your intended solution. No exploits, shortcuts or glitches, just different.

I spent quite some time trying to figure out what good dropping a cube through the laser grills would do. In my opinion, a different barrier would be better. Either have steps down to an unjumpable wall, or a grinder, perhaps. The death grills are misleading in a puzzle which is already fairly sophisticated.

I like this map so much I've added it to my extras menu. A no-brainer 5/5 from me.

Great map! Although i didn't notice that hole in the glass before the corridor to the second cube. But the puzzle is solvabale totally without it! And it becomes much harder because you always have one cube less than you need, and it forces you to think 100% with portals! So: try to get it without that glass corridor

And by the way, i think it is possible to complete the map using only 3 cubes. I already have an idea of solution, will try to record it in few days. Try it yourself if you want your brain to do a real job

Thanks for everyone's feedback

I've now compiled a list of all the final fixes needed as a result of your comments. I will now build a fixed version today.

@tossha: Is it really possible to complete this with 3 boxes? It seems you would need:

* one box to turn on the excursion funnel
* one box to reverse the excursion funnel
* one box to activate the portal panel in the back of the tube
* one box to block the laser beam so it doesn't kill you

Perhaps it's possible to get through the reverse funnel without a box, without dying from the laser beam. I haven't investigated this very much.

At the time I managed to complete it for me it was absolutely number one in terms of feeling the accomplishment. It was also number one in terms of difficulty.

When the contest was over I thought where is "Engineer". After I played the winners maps the question was recurring more and more. The only answer to that is that map still contains several places where you can stuck with no options to proceed. However puzzles are brilliant and this map is essential for every true Portal fan. Ruien many, many thanks for giving me those great moments and I eagerly await for your next release.

For me the harder the puzzle the better. It must be said that recently we got a lot of great stuff with such epic tests as NYS5, Beamtrap, Quadro or Chander`s chambers with nr 4 my current personal favourite. I highly recommend those

Map updated with the following in version 1.4.0:

* Cubes labeled 1-4 so players know the general order of things
* Emergency exits (fizzlers) added to many areas. It's now much harder to die or get stuck.
* Glass added to funnel to make it easier to see the portal surface in the back when activated
* Fizzlers don't fizzle cubes; they now repel them. This makes it easier to not lose a cube.

Will play to the new version of course!

Any new project on your schedule?

josepezdj wrote:
Will play to the new version of course!
Any new project on your schedule?

Haha, it just took me 5 months to finally update Engineer to 1.4.0 and fix some things I planned to fix long ago. Unfortunately I have a full-time job, a part-time job, and three work-related side projects. But Portal 2 is one of the best-designed games ever made, and eventually I shall again be inspired with a cool idea and to make another map.

But first - I have another idea.

I have pages and pages of "puzzle elements" in my notebooks. They are ideas I get while designing and playing maps - unique thoughts of ways to use existing elements in new ways. They aren't maps in and of themselves, just small elements from which large maps are made.

I think I want to make a series of chambers each demonstrating one of these elements. I have at least 30 such elements I haven't seen in anyone else's maps. I don't have time to build a whole new map, and I won't for awhile. But if I could make a small chamber here and there which tests a single puzzle element, and then string these together into a series of element chambers, I could make a nice "Puzzle Element Library" which others may be able to use.

Ruien wrote:
Unfortunately I have a full-time job, a part-time job, and three work-related side projects.

WOW mate! At least I hope you are close to be a rich man!! hehehe

Ruien wrote:
I have pages and pages of "puzzle elements" in my notebooks. They are ideas I get while designing and playing maps - unique thoughts of ways to use existing elements in new ways. They aren't maps in and of themselves, just small elements from which large maps are made.

I think I want to make a series of chambers each demonstrating one of these elements. I have at least 30 such elements I haven't seen in anyone else's maps. I don't have time to build a whole new map, and I won't for awhile. But if I could make a small chamber here and there which tests a single puzzle element, and then string these together into a series of elements, I could make a nice "Puzzle Element Library" which others may be able to use.

Ruien, that sounds absolutely awesome! I would like to have the strength enough to cheer you up to map at least a bit each week. I will only say that Engineer remains as a cult puzzle here in the forum and I'm not the only one who has this opinion...

Man, you left me SO INTRIGUED about all that not-yet-seen ways for using the puzzle elemets! Also, in the case that you really cannot develop all that stuff, don't hesitate to pm if you think I could give you a hand with it!

Truly.

Nothing to say but: A truly great map! While it is very hard compared to the original levels, it doesn't require any of those ninja-glitch-moves but only good thinking. It reminded me of those hand-held slider puzzles, for which you have to keep in mind what will happen to the rest of the puzzle when you move the one slide you can move. I didn't pay attention to the time, but I guess it took me 1 to 2 hours to complete.

There was only one negative aspect: If the player drops into the glass cage with the 1st and 4th cube inside without having set portals, he gets trapped in there. Would it break the map if there was a portal-able area above this cage?

Nice map
at first i was like there's no way in heck I can get at the fourth cube up on that high post conained in a glass case. Then it hit me: what if I smear a cube in gel and let it bounce around in that glass case so it would knock the other cube off the post. And it worked!

This is a truly great map! I had a lot of fun and it took me rather long.
Thank you for mapping, 5/5.