update Momentum v_5

Fixed issues:
- The gel doesn't leak through the floor/ceiling (Thanks Mr. P. Kiwi!)
- Removed that "hover in mid-air behaviour" from both lasers in room 1 (Thanks pedmacedo!)
- Cube can't be retrieved after increasing the counter anymore (Thanks Seizure22!)
- Corrected the 'type mismatch' for the fizzler in room 2 (Thanks pfalstad!)


________

update Momentum v_4

Will add a detailed list of fixes later on...
(Should fix all issues mentioned in the thread.)
________

[SP] Momentum v_3

First of all I'd like to thank all of you who have contributed to the WIP thread and to Demonz312 for his ramp instance (which you can find here: panel Stairs+instances).
Very special thanks to NuclearDuckie and josepezdj who have not only playtested this map but also made many suggestions to solve several issues and had great ideas for improving some puzzle elements.
As a first map this was quite ambitious and I should have started with a smaller one. However, despite the fact that it took way too long, it was fun making it and learning Hammer.

As I've written in the WIP thread especially the first puzzle element is about angle, timing and of course 'Momentum'.
It also has two new custom elements. An anti-player and an anti-cube laser field. The first denies the player but allows the cube whereas the second one works the other way around.
At first I used env_lasers to make those laser fields but then found a better, less expensive way using func_brushes with 'abused' textures.
Hope you like it...
__________
Screenshots: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/7656 ... reenshots/
__________
Please do not rename the bsp-file, else you would have to rebuild the cubemaps properly which would cause an increase in file size, thank you!
I made this with the first custom maps I downloaded and wondered at some ugly reflections
__________

Known issues:
- One of the brush entities is ceiling and floor at the same time with a gel dropper above. The gel can be seen (leaking) through it (any ideas???).
- The cube in the first test chamber might get stuck under a panel. I was only able to solve this problem rather clumsily but it should work.
- Due to the random nature of func_physboxes in motion, you might get stuck when moving among them and rigid elements. This only happened once to me, yet I thought I should mention it.
- There're also parts in this map which require to crouch and move through small openings; I can assure you that I adhered to the minimum measures for height and width, however josepez told me of some problems which might occur due to a corrupt dll-file. In that case you should check that first.
- I liked a custom env_laser element I made much better with end sparks but they were visible through other func_details and walls (again, any ideas?).

File Name: sp_momentum_v5.rar
File Size: 9.05 MiB
Click here to download [SP] Momentum

awesome
i did not find any bugs

Excellent map. I did get stuck in the moving panels in the second room (The ones in front of the turrets below the gel dropper) Other than that i didn't have any other problems.

Quote:
- One of the brush entities is ceiling and floor at the same time with a gel dropper above. The gel can be seen (leaking) through it (any ideas???).

Make the floor/ceiling brush thicker, 32 units should do the trick.

Quote:
- The cube in the first test chamber might get stuck under a panel. I was only able to solve this problem rather clumsily but it should work.

Place a func_brush with the tools/toolsinvisible texture under that panel, you can activate/deactivate the brush when necessary.

Quote:
- I liked a custom env_laser element I made much better with end sparks but they were visible through other func_details and walls (again, any ideas?).

Again try placing an invisible brush (not a func_ anything) there, maybe texture it with nodraw.

I'm going to try the map shortly, I'll tell you what I think when I'm done.

@donutninja

Quote:
awesome i did not find any bugs

Glad you liked it donutninja, at least the first comment this time isn't:"Make it less broken!"

@benvent

Quote:
Excellent map. I did get stuck in the moving panels in the second room (The ones in front of the turrets below the gel dropper) Other than that i didn't have any other problems.

Thank you, I will add a switchable func_brush (player_clip) in front. That should work...

@Mr. P. Kiwi

Quote:
Make the floor/ceiling brush thicker, 32 units should do the trick.

Sounds plausible, I tried different (differently textured) brushes beneath it to no avail. Will have to make the floor/ceiling thicker it seems...will give it a try.

Quote:
Place a func_brush with the tools/toolsinvisible texture under that panel, you can activate/deactivate the brush when necessary.

Have already done that, also using trigger_pushes but the time when the panel resets seems to be too short. Currently there is an invisible portal_cleanser underneath it which dissolves the cube if it gets stuck. As I've already written this happens once out of a hundred attempts or so.
I use the above mentioned method you suggested for the player_clips just before they raise.

Quote:
Again try placing an invisible brush (not a func_ anything) there, maybe texture it with nodraw.

I think you'll notice that in that case it won't work. I'll post a screenshot of what I mean. After the latest updates Portal crashes for me when using env_sprites with sparkles btw. Some other sprites like dust/smoke don't show up from time to time (???) No idea why.

Edit: I forgot to add why I found it plausible, that's simply because I also noticed that you can't use any thickness for surfaces for proper portal placement, since too thin surfaces tend to show the backside of the brush. This of course only goes for brushes which aren't placed flush to adjacent walls.

Another edit (leaking gel): Great! Making the brush 16 units thick solved the problem. Thank you Mr. P. Kiwi!!!

As promised here comes a screenshot. Unfortunately it's rather difficult to grab the right frame where more sparks show up. In real time while playing this looks really weird. Anyways this might give you an impression of what I mean:

env_laser_end_sparks.jpg

God i am so stuck on this map. I put a cube down the pit to get the laser reguidance cube, now i have 2 lasers, but i dont know what to do with them. 30 mins stuck and counting

Well, I almost solved your map o_O (except I have noooo idea how to throw the button down, at the end I just noclipped, and spawned a cube in the receptacle).

Very, very very nice map, great puzzles, great new elements! 5/5
(can someone please spoil me how to do the very first part?)

First chamber worked well, although a bit different from the beta versions.
Second chamber I got a piece of tile which fell against the wall at "1 dot", prevented inserting cubes. Took a while to figure out that wasn't supposed to happen and with the new "Load Last Save" I had to go to the save file to find an earlier autosave - entry again and the tile didn't fall against that "0" port. The "load last save" is not a help, but I guess it came with the new update of P2?
Stumped on how to exit the second chamber couldn't find a cube to start the funnel - gave up and had to noclip.
Working on getting the cube in the 3rd chamber.
Great map....

@Xello

Quote:
God i am so stuck on this map. I put a cube down the pit to get the laser reguidance cube, now i have 2 lasers, but i dont know what to do with them. 30 mins stuck and counting

You have to redirect the lasers in order to trigger the vertical and horizontal laser relays and the laser catcher. Starting with the vertical ones first. This obviously requires the cube to be tilted upwards.

@lpfreaky90

Quote:
Well, I almost solved your map o_O (except I have noooo idea how to throw the button down, at the end I just noclipped, and spawned a cube in the receptacle).
Very, very very nice map, great puzzles, great new elements! 5/5
(can someone please spoil me how to do the very first part?)

Glad you liked the map. Here comes the spoiler:
You will find a v-shaped indent around the panel closer to the buttons which trigger both panels. There you have to place the cube so, that its edge is pointing upwards. Then it's about angle and timing. You press the right button first which should toss the cube towards the second panel and then trigger the second one with a slight delay to fling it behind the glass onto the button. This means that you need both panels. I have to admit that even knowing how, it's a little bit tricky. I tried to facilitate the whole thing by adding some trigger_pushs and made a funnel shaped area with higher gravity.
I tried to tweak it until I succeeded roughly in two of five attempts.

@quatrus

Quote:
Second chamber I got a piece of tile which fell against the wall at "1 dot", prevented inserting cubes. Took a while to figure out that wasn't supposed to happen and with the new "Load Last Save" I had to go to the save file to find an earlier autosave - entry again and the tile didn't fall against that "0" port. The "load last save" is not a help, but I guess it came with the new update of P2?

That actually shouldn't have happened. I placed a multitude of trigger_pushs there which were supposed to "clean up" important parts around that area. Even the indicator lights should only be covered (if at all) only partially. Have to check if I have accidentally removed some of those.

Quote:
Stumped on how to exit the second chamber couldn't find a cube to start the funnel - gave up and had to noclip.

At that point there're quite a lot of cubes available in chamber 2.1

Yes, Thanks I got one of those laser cubes but I'm not too good at chucking cubes up through the window either... Great map!

quatrus wrote:
Yes, Thanks I got one of those laser cubes but I'm not too good at chucking cubes up through the window either... Great map!

That's not the solution!

Very nice level, I loved the geometry throughout. Even with simple wall textures, it flows really well.

Placing cubes into the glass/box structure area was quite tricky/difficult.
Also: It's possible to just put the cube on the edge of the secondary catapult panel. From there I launched it up and then hit it again as it came down, managing to send it down into the chute. But maybe that was just lucky

MutatedTurret wrote:
Very nice level, I loved the geometry throughout. Even with simple wall textures, it flows really well.

Placing cubes into the glass/box structure area was quite tricky/difficult.
Also: It's possible to just put the cube on the edge of the secondary catapult panel. From there I launched it up and then hit it again as it came down, managing to send it down into the chute. But maybe that was just lucky

Yes you're right josepezdj was also able to do it like that. I thought that it's even trickier than the intended solution and it could be left like that. It is, as you wrote, tricky enough...

Just Ragequit in laser cube room.... Solution is obvious... Have placed all cubes properly 2x now .. laser is not aligning to receptor.. just a bit off.. Get killed trying to re-align cubes..
Other than that, nice map.. not too challenging, but up until cube room fun to play.. cube room is just a pain in the butt. Probably won't be going back to finish the map..

Really Good.A lot different from when I played it before especially with another chamber added in.

neco wrote:
@Xello
Quote:

God i am so stuck on this map. I put a cube down the pit to get the laser reguidance cube, now i have 2 lasers, but i dont know what to do with them. 30 mins stuck and counting

You have to redirect the lasers in order to trigger the vertical and horizontal laser relays and the laser catcher. Starting with the vertical ones first. This obviously requires the cube to be tilted upwards.

Lol i didn't even realize you can put the cube down and have it facing upwards, thanks.

@Szieve

Quote:
Just Ragequit in laser cube room.... Solution is obvious... Have placed all cubes properly 2x now .. laser is not aligning to receptor.. just a bit off.. Get killed trying to re-align cubes..
Other than that, nice map.. not too challenging, but up until cube room fun to play.. cube room is just a pain in the butt. Probably won't be going back to finish the map..

It is very difficult to place clip_vphysics as 'invisible helpers' without disregarding the minimum requirements for height and width of openings. From time to time a slight difference of a few units prevents the cubes from sitting properly in place.
It is quite easy to realign the cube by first grabbing and then releasing it immediately, though. If it's the last cube which annoyed you, you can also reach it by not standing right in front of it but from a slightly offset position (if it is pushed far enough into the 'tunnel'), or by simply removing the cube from the cube_floor_button and thus disabling the laser.

Hope you give it another try. Perhaps you might like the next test chamber better.

@andyb

Quote:
Really Good.A lot different from when I played it before especially with another chamber added in.

Glad you liked it. Yes indeed, I've neglected the WIP thread in favour of a less broken final version with many additions.

@Xello

Quote:
Lol i didn't even realize you can put the cube down and have it facing upwards, thanks.

I remember having encountered that in a custom map and being totally frustrated until I final found the solution. I thought it's a common gameplay element by now.

I sat on your map for about 30 minutes and I still haven't solved it. Hard maps are nice, but not hard in a way that you feel desperate - It's not fun like that. And the idea of games is to enjoy them. I'm sorry if this is a bit harsh, but please do try and take this things to heart, it will make a lot of people happier.
I did like the art style though, keep up the great work.

Mr. P. Kiwi wrote:
I sat on your map for about 30 minutes and I still haven't solved it. Hard maps are nice, but not hard in a way that you feel desperate - It's not fun like that. And the idea of games is to enjoy them. I'm sorry if this is a bit harsh, but please do try and take this things to heart, it will make a lot of people happier.
I did like the art style though, keep up the great work.

Too bad you didn't enjoy the map. I would have expected some other critical comments but seriously not that it's too hard. Another comments says:"... not too challenging, but fun to play."
I think it's quite hard to please everyone as far as difficulty and/or puzzle elements are concerned.
I played quite a lot of maps which I found very hard but always tried not to give up and later on found out that it wasn't as hard as I initially thought, because I simply failed to see certain things at first. As long as a puzzle isn't (or wasn't) misleading (even on purpose) I thing that this is the real fun part of being challenged.
May I ask where you got stuck?

PS: Oh, and thanks for solving my gel issue! Will change that ASAP...

I'm playing custom maps and record my first time of playing them. So the run is not perfect and may not use only intended ways, but maybe it can let you see how other people may understand the map or you could just enjoy someone playing this map for entertainment.
Anyways, here is the recording:

2BzwcAL7i3w
(Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BzwcAL7i3w)

Also note the video description for more feedback and my signature for additional project information.

very nice map. Took me about 1 1/2 hrs to solve. I found one unintended solution: I was able to bring the cube up the lift in the first chamber. Put the cube on the pad, called the lift, ran for the cube and as the platform lowered I dropped the cube, jumped on it and jumped on the lift, then grabbed the cube. It wasn't that difficult to execute either. Oh, and I didn't use the red gel at all. Couldn't figure what it was for.

@Djinndrache
Hi there ninja!
Djinndrache, you are truly the master of the unintended way! You almost did nothing as you were supposed to - unbelievable. Thank you very much for making this video . Kudos!

@Korl

Quote:
very nice map. Took me about 1 1/2 hrs to solve. I found one unintended solution: [snip]

Well what can I say, it's of course not the intended way and as I have also learned from Djinndrache's video and your post the usage of the red gel to reach the button can also be bypassed due to a few bugs I've overlooked. Will have to change quite a lot of things, yet. Thanks for having taken the time to comment.

neco wrote:
@Djinndrache
Hi there ninja!
Djinndrache, you are truly the master of the unintended way! You almost did nothing as you were supposed to - unbelievable. Thank you very much for making this video . Kudos!

I did not even plan to find unintended ways.. It just happens.. over and over again. Guess that's not supposed to be bad though Glad you like it

edit: Infact your message is so awesome, I had to put it to my signature!

Brilliant map from a beginner who has much to offer to the Portal game community.

I am very pleased of having collaborated with Neco testing this impressive mappack through its development, because I really had much fun with every puzzle of every new version... This is hardly credible a beginner's work! I found it so detailed, polished, clever, and so funny! ...and I wish I'd have many of Neco's skills to develop one day such a great mappack like this.

After reading all the comments on this discussion thread, it's courious how difficult are feelings coming from people all over the world to expect... I don't understand how some guys think this is so difficult to even give up!. For me it's an awesome mappack from the beginning to the end... Correction: I only hate the words: ...TO BE CONTINUED... at the end of the fun!

Map 1 is my favourite one. Neco made here a very funny use of the lasers (that sometimes are so annoying): with the lifting panels, the angled brushes, or later on at the upper smaller room puzzle. Also the cube launching was a so creative element! But mostly, this map has an excellent chamber construction: the v-shaped pit behind the glass, the upper ledge where you get your first cube, and the positioning of the prop_laser_relays. And the lighting is so good with the skybox and textures projected shadowing, altogether with the music, give the chambers a really nice touch full of a relaxation feeling.

Another of my favourite parts was the reflector cubes puzzle. Not only because it is a sooo creative maze, but also because it is so fun, it's kinda a classic labyrinth puzzle game... and you can figure out different solutions and play placing the cubes... Apart from that part, there are many creative and interesting things here built up around the custom laser barriers: like the funnel to travel the cubes in map 2, or the map 3 completely.

Neco, thanks for mapping!!

Playthrough:
Part I:

KscddQurJDw
Part II:

K21Wmc1Hw1g
Part III:

hC4QhLOfGsI

This map in a sentence: someone really needs to add a flip function while holding cubes.

It's unbelievably cumbersome otherwise.

Yes, it's one of the annoying things that come about due to Valve incorporating a physics engine into their game without accounting for all the possibilities it allows for. Sure, it's possible to turn laser cubes to face upwards, but why make it easy when none of the campaign levels require it?

I'm reminded wistfully of the developer commentary to the original Portal, particularly the line: "We knew that once the game was out in the wild, custom map creators would stress the system in ways we hadn't even considered, so we made it as flexible as possible."

(Neco, I intend to send you a message just as soon as I play this newest version. Glad to see it's getting such good reception!)

Finally found the time to fix some issues mentioned in this thread (and spotted while watching the videos).
Will answer all posts later on. Can't keep my eyes open for now...sorry for the delay!

@Djinndrache

Quote:
I did not even plan to find unintended ways.. It just happens.. over and over again. Guess that's not supposed to be bad though Glad you like it

Yes I do, in a masochistic way, though

Quote:
edit: Infact your message is so awesome, I had to put it to my signature!

Quid pro quo! You owe me another playthrough video of the latest version

@Saturn

Quote:
This map in a sentence: someone really needs to add a flip function while holding cubes.
It's unbelievably cumbersome otherwise.

Why shouldn't 'up' be an equally valid direction?! There are different methods of tilting a cube upwards. Almost everywhere when tilting a cube is required you can find an edge/ledge to flip the cube or use a second one to do so. I can't find it cumbersome at all - That's childplay.

@NuclearDuckie

Quote:
Yes, it's one of the annoying things that come about due to Valve incorporating a physics engine into their game without accounting for all the possibilities it allows for. Sure, it's possible to turn laser cubes to face upwards, but why make it easy when none of the campaign levels require it?
I'm reminded wistfully of the developer commentary to the original Portal, particularly the line: "We knew that once the game was out in the wild, custom map creators would stress the system in ways we hadn't even considered, so we made it as flexible as possible."

I really can't understand what should be annoying about this. If they'd used it in the campaign levels it would be okay, else not?!
And as far as your quote is concerned I'm not sure if he or she didn't mean that with a positive anticipation, looking forward for new, creative ideas. I am sure that the developers of the campaign levels would have used many ideas from custom maps if they'd had them themselves.

@josepezdj
Hi there Jose, it was a pleasure for me, too. Thank you for your kind words! I think that having a fair amount of experience with 3d apps in general, and being familiar with 3d viewports, texturing, basic concepts of lighting etc, make it much easier to learn Hammer and mapping. There is a lot I have to learn as far as game puzzle development is concerned, though. I think I made too many mistakes working with different versions at the same time and most definitely have to change my workflow. I sometimes simply forgot to glue the right parts together, or omitted whole elements in versions I sent you and NuclearDuckie or even uploaded as beta or 'final' versions. Forgetting the fizzlers with version 3 was again an epic fail
Thank you also for your videos and the visual help they provided to spot many issues. Sorry for the late reply but I am sure you might have guessed why I haven't had much time this week...

Cool map, I found a bug though, if you make a tower of three laser cubes, making the top one redirect a laser, you can remove the cubes under it making it fly.
Btw, what happens when you rename the map? I like to name my maps "customX_"+mapName, but this time I didn't :\

pedmacedo wrote:
Cool map, I found a bug though, if you make a tower of three laser cubes, making the top one redirect a laser, you can remove the cubes under it making it fly.
Btw, what happens when you rename the map? I like to name my maps "customX_"+mapName, but this time I didn't :\

You would have to rebuild the cubemaps. Else all reflections in that map would look weird. Showing a pink/black checkerboard on relfective surfaces or the default cubemap.
The filename is stored into the file itself while building cubemaps therefore you should rebuild the cubemaps after renaming the file via console:
1. mat_specular 0
2. buildcubemaps
3. mat_specular 1
4. mat_reloadallmaterials
5. mat_reloadalltextures
Keep in mind that the filesize will increase each time you do that!

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Cubemaps

I will try to remove that "hover in mid-air behaviour" from all lasers. Thanks for pointing that out!

neco wrote:
You owe me another playthrough video of the latest version

This map already had some updates? Can't you make it final before asking me to renew the video?

Djinndrache wrote:
This map already had some updates? Can't you make it final before asking me to renew the video?

Actually this is it (sp_momentum_v4.bsp)! Of course I'd make minor tweaks and touch-ups but if you can still bypass whole puzzle elements or I'll spot major game play issues, I'll give up. I'll have to have a different approach and workflow next time. It's absolutely okay to have alternative solutions but not epic fails like forgetting whole map elements on my part.

PS: How did you know btw, that dissolved cube debris would trigger the floor cube button? Haven't you noticed the moving fizzler above it? However, this should not happen anymore, and you also shouldn't be able to reach the ceiling button without using the speed gel or leave the reflective cube puzzle room without having powered the laser catcher, no matter how many cubes you used to solve it.

Pointing the laser up is perfectly valid direction but the way it's done is cumbersome and frustrating. The criticism isn't towards you but to the way it's handled in general.

I would have expected some modder to add in the functionality to flip cubes or have Valve address it, especially if the solution hinges upon it. The way it's done now has too big of a margin to become annoying and it's definitely inelegant. Also, because the flipping is done in roundabout way and the option of directing lasers up wasn't covered in the SP campaign or in custom mods the player tends to forget this possibility so it's a bit silly when you realize that you need to put tbe cubes on edges and etc. so it can fall on the current side.

And when you need to squeeze cubes to place them in any direction that isn't the default one, many times you dont have the room of leverage to push the cube with your body. The only way is to pick up the cube but it will flip it to the default position and you're back at square one.

The implementation is bugging me, not the principle.

Saturn wrote:
Pointing the laser up is perfectly valid direction but the way it's done is cumbersome and frustrating. The criticism isn't towards you but to the way it's handled in general.

I would have expected some modder to add in the functionality to flip cubes or have Valve address it, especially if the solution hinges upon it. The way it's done now has too big of a margin to become annoying and it's definitely inelegant. Also, because the flipping is done in roundabout way and the option of directing lasers up wasn't covered in the SP campaign or in custom mods the player tends to forget this possibility so it's a bit silly when you realize that you need to put tbe cubes on edges and etc. so it can fall on the current side.

And when you need to squeeze cubes to place them in any direction that isn't the default one, many times you dont have the room of leverage to push the cube with your body. The only way is to pick up the cube but it will flip it to the default position and you're back at square one.

The implementation is bugging me, not the principle.

Have you considered that you haven't always found the ideal method at a given moment/situation? As far as I can see I have even removed player clippings where they might have hindered the player to move freely. I had to find a compromise between helping the player to move around without constantly having to jump and offering enough room for leverage.
I think you might only be referring to the laser/cube puzzle in room (2.1). Actually there is only a single opening where the placement is more difficult. This is only true when using the wrong method to flip the cube. As long as you use an edge/ledge above it, it shouldn't take more than 3 attempts (btw this is almost always the best option to favour). I wouldn't call that frustratingly cumbersome. There is no part that requires a tilted cube to be picked up for proper placement.

Please watch josepezdj's video (> 8:23) solution Nr.2 here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... w1g#t=503s
(It should start at the pertinent part)

Placement for the first four cubes here (> 3:48):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... w1g#t=228s
(The above said is very clear for the first cube. If he'd used the edge above the opening he wouldn't had to collide with the player clip which was supposed to help climbing the pedestal. However even than he doesn't need to pick up the tilted cube!)

I found it irritating that you phrased your criticism in a way, which suggested that the map hasn't anything else to offer but flipping cubes solely. Else I really do appreciate criticism which is constructive but as I told you it is hard to find a compromise for player clip placement in that test chamber. The best solution would be to remove all the player clips at once risking complaints about being forced to constantly jump.

After all no hard feelings - I hope that you at least liked a few other aspects of the map and now can understand why I had to do things the way I did, and that I really put some thought into it...

I didn't mean to imply that the map had nothing to offer, it's actually good from the parts i played, but the harder sections of it, the ones i got stucked in for awhile were those that their solution used a flipped laser cube.
There's nothing wrong with it per se, but i think we can agree that if a function for flipping the cubes to any of its sides is added to the game then it will benefit both the mapper and the player.

Excellent job! Challenging and fun map. I couldn't figure out how to flip the cube until I read this forum, and then felt embarrassed for not figuring it out. I had a lot of trouble figuring out how to finish the second part and get to the final room; I stumbled on it by accident. After trying and failing to do cube-tossing, I was trying to get a reflectocube onto the button for the tractor beam when I accidentally fizzled it. I wasn't expecting a new cube to be created there because it's a different type of cube.

It was also hard getting one of the reflectocubes where I needed it in the giant reflectocube puzzle. I think I had to grab two of the cubes that were already in place and stuffed them into the opening to nudge the last cube into position.

Quote:
Excellent job! Challenging and fun map. I couldn't figure out how to flip the cube until I read this forum, and then felt embarrassed for not figuring it out.

Glad you liked it!
As I've already written before, I was also almost frustrated when I first came across that flipping the cube thingy while playing a custom map but was finally able to find the solution. As far as I remember there was a small mound placed close to the laser catcher, making you think that you could use that as a helper. Was even a little harder.

Quote:
I had a lot of trouble figuring out how to finish the second part and get to the final room; I stumbled on it by accident. After trying and failing to do cube-tossing, I was trying to get a reflectocube onto the button for the tractor beam when I accidentally fizzled it. I wasn't expecting a new cube to be created there because it's a different type of cube.

I hope you didn't consider this to be some kind of intentionally misleading the player. Perhaps I should avoid the irritation concerning the 'type mismatch' by initially placing a reflective cube to activate the funnel. I thought that indicating that the two other fizzlers are out of order might be sufficient as a hint. Will change that, thank you!

Quote:
It was also hard getting one of the reflectocubes where I needed it in the giant reflectocube puzzle.

Depending on the way you do it one might suffice but yes, that's the correct solution.

Nice map. It really held me a while. I almost quit in the first room because i couldn't figure that i had to turn the cube.
I was also quite irritated in the room with 9 cubes. It was easy to figure how to place them, but cubes kept stucking and glitching. Just a little more space would be nice to make it easier to slide the cubes.
And i managed to lose the cube in the third rom. Unfortunate combination of portals got the cube behind the barrier. Just had to load the last save, but after all the trouble getting through the first two rooms i was on the edge of going berserk

I enjoyed this map, some very unique puzzles you have there. I originally played beta2, nice to see all the additions and fixes you've done.

A few nitpicks:

Puzzle 1:
- There's a visible nodraw surface on the back of the cube drop area in puzzle 1 (while standing next to the funnel emitter)

Puzzle 2:
- It's possible to hold a cube into the drop area on puzzle two, increase the counter, and retrieve it
- A laser cube became stuck in one of the glass / metal structures (specifically the one in front of where the last cube is placed), forcing me to load from last save; maybe collision-ify the areas that shouldn't have a cube.
- And this is probably extremely rare, but it happened:
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/612717265874707647/8BD19B085867F02867998BA4CC4F77C9E7C6CCD7/

Puzzle 3:
- I thought I had to retrieve the cube by going around the other side of the force field; when I was shoved out, I thought I had glitched the triggers

Other than that, great map, great atmosphere, and great surprises.

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I enjoyed this map, some very unique puzzles you have there. I originally played beta2, nice to see all the additions and fixes you've done.

Glad you liked it and thank you very much for having taken the time to write.

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Puzzle 1:
- There's a visible nodraw surface on the back of the cube drop area in puzzle 1 (while standing next to the funnel emitter

Sorry, can't see what you mean but will keep an open eye to spot the issue. A screenshot might be helpful in that case to fix this.

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Puzzle 2:
- It's possible to hold a cube into the drop area on puzzle two, increase the counter, and retrieve it

Ooooops!!! I did it again.......Yes, what an epic failure! Don't know what to do to avoid things like that. I'm running out of ideas.
Will of course fix this as soon as I find out why Hammer doesn't compile logic_timers correctly anymore. Right now the bsp-output is corrupt and several things don't work properly. Might have to reinstall everything since validating the game cache hasn't solved anything

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- A laser cube became stuck in one of the glass / metal structures (specifically the one in front of where the last cube is placed), forcing me to load from last save; maybe collision-ify the areas that shouldn't have a cube.

Yes, as you've written in rare cases some strange errors occur. As I've pointed out a few times I adhered to the minimum requirements for openings (height/width), however certain problems during game play can't be always be prevented.

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- And this is probably extremely rare, but it happened:
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/61271 ... 9E7C6CCD7/

Same as above. There are several trigger_pushes that are meant to wipe out that area from falling debris. No idea why under certain circumstances they don't seem to work. Maybe a certain internal timing issue or something. In that case it really fits exactly in the opening leaving no room to push it away. Sorry! A certain amount of randomness bears the danger of running into issues like these.

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Puzzle 3:
- I thought I had to retrieve the cube by going around the other side of the force field; when I was shoved out, I thought I had glitched the triggers

I must honestly admit that I don't understand the exact thing that happened here but I know that in some rare cases (who knows why) the clip_vphysics fails to work which allows the cube to cross that brush entity. Might have been that issue you experienced here(?!?)

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Other than that, great map, great atmosphere, and great surprises.

Thanks again Seizure22, hope you'll like the next map I'm working on, too.

The last time I played this map was back in early beta.

I just decided to come download the latest version to see if it's improved at all (since it had so much potential), and I must say I'm very, very pleased with how this has turned out now. Not only did you fix everything, but you also added significantly to the overall content and quality. The improvement over time in this map is incredible, and you put a lot of work into this.

Ruien wrote:
The last time I played this map was back in early beta.

I just decided to come download the latest version to see if it's improved at all (since it had so much potential), and I must say I'm very, very pleased with how this has turned out now. Not only did you fix everything, but you also added significantly to the overall content and quality. The improvement over time in this map is incredible, and you put a lot of work into this.

Thank you very much for your nice comment Ruien. Glad you liked it.
I have had some big fails while doing this and still have the same kind of problems with the map I am currently creating.
Well, it was my first (probably too ambitious) attempt and at least the latest version should be quite okay...

For all intents and purposes, this was an absolutely outstanding map. That it is your first map makes it that much more incredible. You've got a bright mapping future ahead of you and I'll be lining up to play.

I have a few comments. In section one, I had two moments of frustration, both of which I realized later was because I was doing it wrong. Not sure either is truly an exploit. I used a different method of getting the first cube in the receptacle, requiring only one button. I set it in free fall, falling past the vertical relays, then shot it toward the platform using a sloping wall, then hit the button. Most of the time it went every which way, but I did finally get it in. Later I realised why there were 2 buttons, lol. I'm a little slow sometimes! The other exploit has to do with the laser catcher up top. I couldn't for the life of me figure it out. After watching josepezdj's video I felt like an idiot, considering I had had to use a cube pointing up just before that. My solution is in the screenshot. I used the funnel to get it on the ledge. Not elegant, but it worked.

2012-03-06_00001.jpg
Also, you can get stuck if you don't take the companion cube with you through the first door that leads towards the elevator. At least, I got stuck. Luckily I had a save.

I didn't like the final solution in section 2. I spent about an hour trying to figure out how to get a cube back in the room to restart the funnel, before I accidentally hit it on the fizzler and it reappeared in the room from the chute. I don't think it is a logical outcome that a cube grabbed from one room with a chute would reappear in another room with its own separate chute. This really bogged down an otherwise very nicely paced puzzle.

In the final section, I had the same problem as seizure22, namely: I thought I had to retrieve the cube by going around the other side of the force field; when I was shoved out, I thought I had glitched the triggers. The steps leading up to the other side from the pit really push you toward that conclusion. I'm all for red herrings and all, but this drove me crazy. I still don't know why it would force you out from behind like that. None of the other anti-player fields react like that. It seemed really out of place.

I don't want to sound too picky. To be honest, I rarely ever bother to note my objections on other maps. But Momentum is so close to greatness, it's worth getting it perfect. Regardless, it sure is fun as hell, and is one of the best maps I have played, either Valve or user created!

TaiMai wrote:
For all intents and purposes, this was an absolutely outstanding map. That it is your first map makes it that much more incredible. You've got a bright mapping future ahead of you and I'll be lining up to play

Glad you liked and enjoyed 'Momentum' and thank you very much for your comments.
After more than 1000 downloads and only 12 votes I don't think that it can be that good, though.

I could answer some of your objections in detail but I think it's much better to tell you that I will redo many things as soon as I've finished the current map I'm working on.
Only one question, yet. If a fizzler is directly connected with a cube dispenser, right in front of your eyes connected with indicator lights, where would you expect the fizzled cube to spawn? Why does this depend on where the cube came from?
Spawn where you were born?
However, I will surely change that, too!

neco wrote:
If a fizzler is directly connected with a cube dispenser, right in front of your eyes connected with indicator lights, where would you expect the fizzled cube to spawn? Why does this depend on where the cube came from?

I'm not quite sure what you mean. I don't believe I've ever seen a fizzler connected with a dispenser. In my experience, both are things that are usually connected to a button, plate, catcher, relay, etc. so that they can be activated or deactivated. I played through the map again to see if I had missed an obvious clue. The fizzler downstairs doesn't appear to be connected to anything. It just breaks when the button is pushed. The upstairs one is connected with the panels that block the turrets and the speed gel, via the laser catcher from the stacking room. I'm sorry if I'm blind, but the indicator lights just don't seem to suggest the fizzler is connected to the dispenser in the room. Of all the maps I've ever played, I've never once seen a cube from one dispenser appear in a separate dispenser if it is destroyed. That's not to say you shouldn't do it. I just think it maybe needs slightly better implementation. It doesn't appear anyone has had this problem though, so maybe I'm just behind the 8 ball!

Sorry TaiMai,

you're right I could have sworn that I added those indicator lights from below the opening to the fizzler.
Seems as if this was one of the things I had on my to-do list but simply forgot. Should either add those indicator lights or change the whole concept there.
Apart from that as far as cubes received from a certain dispenser you're right; they usually are respawn there but the cubes already placed in the map have no certain source, so to speak. That's what I meant.
Thanks again for pointing out the flaw there...

No worries. I see what you mean now about the already placed cubes. I agree, there is no reason to assume a source for them. Can't wait to play your next map.

Oh, and I've rated now. Sorry, I thought I already had. Easily 5/5!

This map started out great, then went downhill, but still ends up being a 5/5 for me. What sets this map apart from most are the many novel elements. What it has in common with other top maps are length, sophisticated puzzles, and tremendous visual detailing.

Room 1 is a gem, with the cube volleyball concept. I encountered a glitch which didn't affect the solvability, but had me confused for a bit. Even though I was standing on the button when the cube went in the chute, it fizzled. The funnel was activated, so I continued. But after I left the room, I thought the cube was history, so it took me a while to just say, "screw it", and push the button for another.

The first part of room 2 was a lot of fun, despite me not seeing the angled panel in the hallway for a long time. I like manipulating objects by remote control, so I enjoyed this one, once I got it going. I did encounter one glitch requiring a quick load. Two of the cubes got stuck in the glass wall. This could be a physics glitch almost certainly beyond your control.

The second part was a drudge, because I hate the cube-handling physics of the game. The puzzle itself was fine, but considering how much of a pain it is to handle all those cubes, I would have designed it with just five cubes.

The final room was a letdown only because it was so short. I was ready for a long, hard lesson in lightbridge abuse, only to have it end after just one clever trick. After all the laser, cube and funnel abuse of the first two rooms, I was really expecting more.

This map certainly was an adventure. It took me about 5 hours, but I managed to get through it in one pass.

Room 1: It took a while before the light bulb went on and I figured out how to get the cube into the chute. Unlike KennKong (my brother), I was not confused by the fact that it fizzled after it served that particular purpose -- that made perfect sense to me. I just mashed the button and got another one. Much of the time I spent here was due to me not noticing how certain elements of the room changed as I completed more of the puzzle. Nice "red herring", too, with the one "launcher" platform in front of the laser receiver that you do not need.

Room 2: Also took me a while on this one until I figured out what the "selective/bouncy grilles" were about. Great concept! I agree with KennKong about the laser puzzle. That was tedious mainly because of the way cubes behave when you're trying to move them around in tight spaces. I liked the concept of the puzzle itself -- very cool to see a 3D laser maze with no portals required. It's only a shortcoming of the game itself that lessened its fun factor.

Room 3: I was expecting more here as well. Interesting use of light bridges and selective grilles. The only real probem I had here was due to my own clumsiness. It wasn't all that difficult to figure out what to do.

Solid 5/5 from me. Great job!

Hey, I just wanted to let you know that this test was a lot of fun and very well done. My only complaint is that the indicators for everything get a bit jumbled and make the correlation between button-action confusing at times. Other than that, I had a lot of fun doing it (nice difficulty, nice design). 5/5

Completed. Took about about 2 hours (that includes cake and smoke breaks). It took every bit of creativity I could muster up, but it was well worth it. Excellent map.

My only complaint was the room in which you have a pile of laser cubes used to activate the orange gel dropper. If that's the one I'm correctly referring to, it looks like a pile of square glass coffee tables. I found that sticking those cubes in there and getting them in the right place was a bit tedious and a lot of fiddling around. Other than that, I liked it.