Well, Valve is announcing more DLC !!!!!! for early next year. However, the new editor has been called "better". Which it isn't. It's easier to use, but has 1/10 of the options that Hammer has. Hammer is also easy to use once you start learning it.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/10/22/valve ... 0ns_fee=0

One of my major concerns is that the maps won't be as customizable, and you won't be able to set up as nice looking maps, or triggers, or indicator lights.

Also, HAO DOES I OPTIMIZES?!!?!?!!

P.S. I AM glad that there is going to be a rating system so that the maps made in hammer that will naturally have the potential to be better will be rated as such and viewed more.

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http://kotaku.com/5851007/valve-tinkering-with-an-excellent-portal-2-feature-that-talks-back?tag=portal2

The link has a picture and an article explaining in limited detail how the new system will work.

Having a level editor that anyone can use is great, but I can't help feel a pang of regret as well. After this, making maps isn't going to be quite as special anymore, because anybody will be able to do it. (I hope I'm not sounding too selfish.)

At the same time, it will create a lot more user created maps that will, (hopefully,) be just as innovative and fun to play. Also the new in game map list sounds cool, and hopefully they'll let maps made in Hammer in there too.

I totally agree, the selfishness is part of it. But that's our entitlement to be selfish about this.

Can I still use Hammer?

I wonder how lighting, and optimization is going to work. Also, I can expect a lot of Portal 2 "mods" are going to flood ModDB, just what we need.

However, Hammer will always be the superior choice, as you need to be talented in a certain degree and you can use custom textures, models and sounds. With this editor, it looks like its all stock items. And I think this is going to work with the instance system. I just hope that Valve does not tug the Authorizing Tools, but rather uses this new system to complement the Authorizing Tools. For example, most people wanna make one or two maps, and never wanna map again, but they don't want to learn all the rules and ways of Hammer. This system would be great for those type of mappers, but it should make people who want to make 'Valve type levels' Beg for more options.

I get "How To" questions all the time on Youtube, and most of it is "HOW DO I DO THIS IN PO2_EDIT?!?!?!", And I'm not looking forward being asked how to do the things I did in this system.

It's like hammer for dummies. The cool part is like those aperture science demonstration cartoons.
You will be able to use hammer.
The portal 2 level editor is more simple, it limits the abilities of the game,
If it releases, I'll just use it as a drawing board, just for ideas,
One question, will there be different themes?
It looks like valve want to attract more customers, though now we have to make more "special maps"

P.S it optimizes the easiness of making a map.
P.P.S check the script folders in the portal 2 dlc directory, a lot of interesting things

I don't think there will be different themes, as there doesn't look like a mode for clipping or adding triggers, projectedtextures, or props of any kind other than the prefabs... I'm also wondering about the lighting and optimization...

Another Picture:

http://cf.shacknews.com/images/20111022/map_editor_02_19826.jpg

Here's another thing I'm a little worried about. With the new in game map list, what will happen to TWP? Since most people will be downloading their maps from the new list, this could be a big blow for us and the other Portal 2 mapping communities.

At the same time, this may benefit us. It would definitely make it easier for us to share maps; providing that we are able to link the in game downloads from here.

Well, I guess we're just going to have to sit back and see what happens. It's still a little too early to jump to conclusions.

You have to remember that this will mostly fill up the game with single element room like putting a cube on a button like the very first room of the game. Alongside other badly made levels I still thing people will come here for maps of excellence. I know I will if the in game one gets filled with crap.

I really think this new DLC will be a good thing, because all of the people who just want to make a Portal 2 map without having to worry about aligning textures, making the puzzles fun, or making more than one map can post theirs in-game, while these forums are alleviated from such maps.

It will basically separate the people who just want to make a Portal map that's theirs, and the people who will bother to learn Hammer to produce actual quality in their levels.

I believe this is win-win.

Aaand, any maps you make in this editor can probably be extracted, so this is the PERFECT tool for making the general layout of a map.

I don't understand what the big deal with this is. Why is it so important to make it difficult to do any good modding? Quality? How do you know it'll be impossible to make this so-called "quality" in the new level editor? For that matter, how do you know for a fact that this level editor won't have as much as Hammer? (Genuine question here.) I haven't heard anything about it other than "it will be simple to use" and some pics that, to me, scream only "concept picture". Not "this is all you're getting in the editor", just "this is an example of how it might look". Also, on that note, I HIGHLY doubt it'll only be able to make extremely simple puzzles. My theory on why the pics so far as simple is simply that perhaps since they're mere concept art, so to speak (let's assume this for the sake of argument), there's no reason to show complex setups yet; they're just meant to show what the editor might look like. A simple room will probably do the job early on. For all we know, we might see more complex setups in the future. Or maybe not. Why ruin the fun of a potential puzzle?

Now, as for the high standards for entry: why? What is so wrong with having a simple, easy-to-use editor? Is it because of the many people on various sites like YouTube that make stupid projects, then show them off to everyone acting like they're the best ever? I know of a program that has this problem, and I've seen people work on the logic that a better editor should be made that ISN'T user-friendly, just to keep these people out. The problem is: what's the point? It's not going to get rid of the stupid projects. It's not going to help much, in my opinion. It will just drive people away. Yes, easy-to-use programs attract a lot of idiots. But the upside is: you CAN still produce amazing quality with them. In other words, what is more important: the trash, or the gems?

My point is, I think it's silly to imagine the worst regarding this editor based on the little we've seen so far, and I think it's kinda stupid (apologies for the harsh word) to think that easy-to-use programs should never be made because it'll "ruin" the feel existing mods have (?!) or anything similar. To be honest, it comes off extremely elitist. In a bad way.

(By the way, two things:
1- If you're so worried that this editor might cause an influx of horrible mods to your downloads section, why not have every upload be approved by a moderator before it can be put in the downloads proper, if such a system isn't already around?
2- I'd mention the exact editor and 'projects' I spoke of above, but I'm not sure if actually talking about ROM hacking is against the rules...oh. wait. I just mentioned it.)

EDIT: I apologize in advance if anything I said came off rude or anything. Just trying to state my dissatisfaction with the overall response to this.

1) I bet the P2 editor has all portal 2 entities, but not half life 2 or portal (e.g. trigger_teleport, prop_dynamic, trigger_look, info _placemen_helper) hammer has all the source engine entities (except the special half life2 ones), this level creator won't make valve quality levels, boss battles, and climax scenes.

2) the big deal is that, anyone can make a map, may not be special or good, and maybe some of the maps that the people upload here, are worse that the average newbie map made in hammer.

3) they do have a moderator to check it, msleeper even made a post saying, moderator check maps to make sure every map are not playground, fullbright, and will delete them.

4) hammer is like AutoCAD, it makes great architectural features, design, everything that the source engine uses, while the map creator looks like what a child would use, and limits the potential of the game itself
And besides, I bet if you decompile one of valve's "special maps" and import them into the creator = CRASH + ERRORS.

I really, really, do not see the point of this editor. There is nothing incredibly hard about using hammer to make maps as it is, you just have to have some determination to make something decent and two brain cells to rub together. And if you dont, quite frankly I dont want to play your map anyway. I expect this editor to just result in crappy, unimaginative, boring maps eveywhere. And yeah, it is possible to create amazing things with simple tools, but there is no need to when there is a great (if slightly crashy) editor already there. Why use mspaint when you already have photoshop?
Rant over.

I think it's gonna be a good thing. It'll at least give us a nice tool to muck around with when thinking up a chamber. Even better is that we get a much nicer way of uploading, downloading, playing and rating maps. Valve are doing their best to reward and supply the community.

I don't have anything against a simpler alternative editing tool, but I have a huge problem with the kind of people who will be using it.
Has anyone here ever played Spore: Galactic Adventures? Its biggest feature was a world editor, and an inbuilt map list/score system. Well guess what? Most of it was flooded with crap created by players with no semblance of quality, and even the "featured" levels seemed to barely have any effort put in. I already preferred playing the game offline, because the creatures Maxis had designed looked so much better than the general quality of the colossal library of user-made ones.

I guess my point is, with so many players creating content, you need more than a voting system to filter out the crap. Simpler tools means simpler people using them; that's just a sad fact.
At least though, it might mean the Hammer noobs leave ThinkingWithPortals alone and opt for the in-game editor, while I can't really see any of the regulars here leaving in a hurry.

Hey, everyone is a noob once. I don't doubt many noobs will opt for a simpler editor, but some noobs will stick with hammer, at least if they want to make really good maps. So dont go noob hating

Spam Nugget wrote:
Hey, everyone is a noob once. I don't doubt many noobs will opt for a simpler editor, but some noobs will stick with hammer, at least if they want to make really good maps. So dont go noob hating

Well, the definitions of the term vary. I'm mainly referring to people who don't have many standards for quality; who have no will to improve. I mean that's what this site is for, isn't it?

Well ok, within those defenitions I agree with you.

Ok, I sorta skimmed through this thread and everyone seems to be pissed that there is going to be a diluted version of hammer. but from what I have seen this seems more like a console thing then an enthusiast program like hammer.

Thoughts?

spongylover123 wrote:
1) I bet the P2 editor has all portal 2 entities, but not half life 2 or portal (e.g. trigger_teleport, prop_dynamic, trigger_look, info _placemen_helper) hammer has all the source engine entities (except the special half life2 ones), this level creator won't make valve quality levels, boss battles, and climax scenes.

And thus, where's the big deal? People that want to use those can use Hammer, and people that just want to be able to make maps easily can use the level creator.

2) the big deal is that, anyone can make a map, may not be special or good, and maybe some of the maps that the people upload here, are worse that the average newbie map made in hammer.

**...so? You just ignore the trash. Not "pretend it doesn't exist," mind you, but "ignore it." I honestly don't believe that "people can easily make trash with it" is a good reason not to make something. Although, I can understand why you want the trash to stay away.

sad fact, though: you can make trash with hammer, too. just place a few objects everywhere and there you go. :/**

3) they do have a moderator to check it, msleeper even made a post saying, moderator check maps to make sure every map are not playground, fullbright, and will delete them.

Oh, okay!

4) hammer is like AutoCAD, it makes great architectural features, design, everything that the source engine uses, while the map creator looks like what a child would use, and limits the potential of the game itself
And besides, I bet if you decompile one of valve's "special maps" and import them into the creator = CRASH + ERRORS.

Well, honestly, the level creator looks like it's intended to be for beginners. What's wrong with that? People can use this to get started, then move on to Hammer if they want more customization. I see no issue here! Also, limiting potential? Not everyone wants to make levels that use the stuff in Portal 2 to its fullest potential, like me. I just want to make something fun. :/ And I am 100% sure that however this creator turns out, I will be able to use it to fulfill my goal.

my responses are in bold.

Also, Spam Nugget, I see one point to this editor: IIRC, it's been stated that it will be on the console versions of the game. This appeals to me, since I honestly prefer playing my PS3 copy of the game instead of on Steam, but only because my computer can't handle Portal 2 that well. (Don't ask why 'cause I don't know. All I know is, it can run it "good", but tends to start slowing down every so often; doesn't do that on my PS3.)

This would be neat if it was like ASW's Tilegen, you can use it to easily make basic geometry and test elements, then export a VMF to make use of all Hammer's features.