Uploaded the 'final' version here:
[SP] Momentum

[SP] 'Momentum' beta_3_9

Fixed a stupid mistake which occured due to copy/pasting elements in Hammer editor without making sure that outputs aren't inherited to the "newly" created element.
Each time the moving cleanser above the floor cube button dissolved a cube in version 3_8 a cube was spawned in the upper small chamber. That means depending on the amount of failed attempts you might encounter cubes where there should be none at all.
Thanks for pointing that out.
_________

[SP] 'Momentum' beta_3_8

So hopefully this version is not as broken as my first attempt (better not broken at all, but that's wishful thinking I'm afraid)
Haven't removed the puzzle element which some of you might not like, others for sure will. I have tried to make the map as "ninjaproof" as I could but who knows what you "ninja guys" have in store for me?!
I really hope it's worth the download this time. Feel free to post your comments to the ongoing thread. I really appreciate all hints and criticism which might help me to improve this map.
Known issues:
- env_soundscape is audible beyond its range (could probably "kill" the entity but haven't done that)
- ambient_generics are still a problem but work unless I don't try to import chamber 2. This isn't finished, yet, since I started to rebuild it almost from scratch.
- reload after auto save causes "bad model 14 error" from time to time (very rarely) (???)
- getting stuck under panels is very clumsily "solved" but works quite fine
- else? You tell me...

_____

Inspired especially by damagepy's maps I started mapping almost four weeks ago. Well, this is my debut map introducing one puzzle element that I at least haven't seen, yet.
It's about angle,timing and of course momentum
Should appreciate it very much if I could have some feedback on this one.
Have temporarily removed two other chambers for now because they caused too many problems. Will add them later on.

Hope you like it.......and oh, there is no cake but a little surprise if you play it to the end........

Don't forget: do not rename the file (because of the cubemaps)!

File Name: sp_momentum_beta_3_9.rar
File Size: 4.93 MiB
Click here to download [SP] 'Momentum' beta_3_9

Make it less broken. plzkthnx

First of all thanks for your reply.
I can't even reproduce what you did there (I have to try a little harder perhaps) but it definitely isn't the intended solution (it's solvable with all three panels up. You can use the portals to place the cubes on top of the panels. Use the slanted portable brushes and jump, holding the cube on them). If I'm not wrong you weren't able to open the exit door like that. A little more verbose description of what you mean saying "broken" would be helpful.

Has anybody finished the map. Is it too hard? Too easy?
My only reference so far were my twins. They indebedently solved the puzzles and that's why I thought that it can't be that hard.


PS: Please keep in mind that English isn't my first language. So if anything sounds weird or wrong be lenient.

The floating cubes are a result of placing them on the raised panels and then lowering those panels (by breaking the laser chain holding them up). Thanks for the tip on how to get on top of them, although that wouldn't have worked in my previous situation due to my needing the portals in one place in order to direct the laser.

I've played it through again and I'll give you feedback on where things were confusing or "broken".

? Firstly, how was I supposed to get the cube onto the button activating the excursion funnel? I ended up throwing it as I jumped through a high-up portal, but this took many tries to get right.
? Second, I noticed that if you press the button to vaporise/respawn the cube, the excursion funnel stays active. This means I can use it to activate the laser, giving me a spare redirection cube.
? To activate the raised panels, I had to turn a redirection cube so that it faced upwards, which felt more like an exploit than a proper solution. However, the alternative required the use of portals, which ended up producing the consequences shown above.
? At the point where I had to put the redirection cubes onto each of the raised panels, I found it frustrating to keep having to return to the small patch of portalable wall in the corner. It would be better if the whole room had white walls at the base.
? This was a minor annoyance, but the excursion funnel kept catching me as I attempted to land on the raised platforms.
? I wasn't entirely sure of my solution to getting the second laser into the receptor. Here's what it looked like:


? It's possible to trap yourself in the "NEXT CHAMBER THIS WAY" room.
? I was able to easily bypass the section involving the timed elevator and the emancipation grill simply by bringing two boxes with me into the "NEXT CHAMBER THIS WAY" room.
? I enjoyed the chamber demonstrating the new mechanic; however I felt it was a little too easy to die from falling into the emancipation grill, which really only needed to destroy the cube.
? Another thing which felt like an exploit: having to raise the cube behind the force field by repeatedly placing the light bridge, which doesn't make any physical sense.
? When I got the cube onto the button, the lasery death field was de-activated, and another door opened, but there was a brick wall immediately behind it. Was this to lead to one of the chambers you cut?

I liked the ending; preferable to a boring old elevator any day, and the turrets made me jump a bit.
I also liked that this was the first map I've played in which you can actually see some of the outside world (well, a tree anyway), and not just stuff growing inside the chambers.

But yeah, while the chamber is playable, there are a number of issues which should probably be addressed before it's considered "done".

This is my playthrough, I tried to show you some of many glitches I found.
SQK9L1AyUZU
You can see (and hear) that "a cube falling on the floor" sound is not working properly.
The glitchy portal I shoot at ~2:24 is not really necessary, I could just shoot a portal on the ceiling (the door that opened as the panels were raising won't (and shouldn't) close (as you can see at ~2:29)).
You can get where I'm at 3:14 without using the bridge. You can squeeze yourself through the gap between the wall and the "repulsion field".
At 3:44 an invisible wall is blocking me, that's annoying and I don't see any reason why it should be there.

You can shoot portal on the ceiling inside the corridor like this:
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/59469 ... 8680ECE4D/

You can get stuck inside a panel.
- If you press a button and go near the pertaining panel:
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/59469 ... 734594A1F/
- If you trigger the "all panels raising" sequence and you stand on a panel before it raises:
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/7656 ... 7353687677

You can get stuck inside a door if you go back as it is closing:
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/59469 ... 84ECAB0B0/

Is this supposed to be the Sun? That cannot be the case because the Sun is so far away that it's position on the sky shouldn't change as you move around. Consider using the env_sun entity.
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/59469 ... E97D724F1/

Hi 2CAE7256 (I had to copy/paste this),

You guys demonstrate why a WIP and beta testing is a must. With your catlike reflexes and jumping/flinging and box throwing skills you really have to make a map foolproof to force your way of solving a puzzle.
Thank you very much for the video. I have to admit that I have to change a lot of things to make you solve it the way it was intended to.
You even bypassed a whole chamber. Apropos bypassing, you also bypassed a lot of triggers which were meant to give you the right sounds at the right time.

The ending on your machine compared to mine (I don't know what your settings are) look awful. The music is missing and the fog/depth seems to be missing somehow, and why does it show that ugly white something were the linked portal is supposed to repeat itself???
I think that this is one major problem with map creation. You have to take to many things into account.

Again, thank you very much for your help! I really appreciate it.

PS: As far as the "mistriggered" sound effect is concerned I have started a thread here:
http://forums.thinking.withportals.com/mapping-help/weird-trigger-behaviour-t4075.html

The stupid upper trigger fires the trigger instead of enabling it...

(I edited my first post to include more information)

I don't know what causes that ending issue.
I also have an issue with viewing a portal through a portal on all custom maps (it works correctly on valve's maps). You can see it at 0:39 - 0:42, it looks black. I didn't see other players having this issue, so the ending will probably work correctly for most players.

Hi NuclearDuckie!

NuclearDuckie wrote:
The floating cubes are a result of placing them on the raised panels and then lowering those panels (by breaking the laser chain holding them up).

I actually know why the cubes are floating but this was supposed to happen later on, after having entered the upper small chamber and 823zdfiuwerhztih...........what the heck you guys have turned everything upside down You were supposed to leave that room only with one cube basta!

No seriously I have to change a lot of things and should put those door rotating funcs back and place more clips and 'avoid-this-and-thats' everywhere

Quote:
Firstly, how was I supposed to get the cube onto the button activating the excursion funnel? I ended up throwing it as I jumped through a high-up portal, but this took many tries to get right.

Well actually, that was the inovation which (I am still amazed) both my sons did it the way it was intended to. I will not tell you, yet. Perhaps I'll be able to avoid all other options first and update to beta3

Quote:
? Second, I noticed that if you press the button to vaporise/respawn the cube, the excursion funnel stays active. This means I can use it to activate the laser, giving me a spare redirection cube.

This cube is the only one which was supposed to be allowed to leave the room. It obviously had its own ideas of being misused
The funnel is needed later on. You bypassed the upper small chamber, too.

Quote:
? To activate the raised panels, I had to turn a redirection cube so that it faced upwards, which felt more like an exploit than a proper solution. However, the alternative required the use of portals, which ended up producing the consequences shown above.

2CAE7256's video shows at least once the intended solution (hope you had a better ending, though

Quote:
? At the point where I had to put the redirection cubes onto each of the raised panels, I found it frustrating to keep having to return to the small patch of portalable wall in the corner. It would be better if the whole room had white walls at the base.

Maybe you're right but you sometimes have to sacrifice functionality to visual concept (hope it's the right preposition).

Quote:
? This was a minor annoyance, but the excursion funnel kept catching me as I attempted to land on the raised platforms.

I can't even imagine how you did that......I'm confused, have to play it myself and try a few things differently. I think I was too focused on learning the mechanics/hammer and tools and visual aspects of mapping.

Quote:
? I enjoyed the chamber demonstrating the new mechanic; however I felt it was a little too easy to die from falling into the emancipation grill, which really only needed to destroy the cube.
? Another thing which felt like an exploit: having to raise the cube behind the force field by repeatedly placing the light bridge, which doesn't make any physical sense.
? When I got the cube onto the button, the lasery death field was de-activated, and another door opened, but there was a brick wall immediately behind it. Was this to lead to one of the chambers you cut?

Again, you guys made me really feel stupid since it wasn't meant to work like that at all. I have to redesign the whole thing. As I said this wasn't meant to be the "new" puzzle element.

Quote:
I liked the ending; preferable to a boring old elevator any day, and the turrets made me jump a bit.
I also liked that this was the first map I've played in which you can actually see some of the outside world (well, a tree anyway), and not just stuff growing inside the chambers.

I hope you had at least nearly the visual and acoustic experience which I hoped to create (tediously ARGGGHHH!!!!)

Quote:
But yeah, while the chamber is playable, there are a number of issues which should probably be addressed before it's considered "done".

I have to admit that I have to think differently when mapping and I am glad you helped me to primarily focus on playability and game mechanics. I have no clue how to avoid supper skills, though.

Thank you for having taken the time to write and giving me the nudge I needed. Glad to have found a place like this............

Oh! I forgot to mention these problems:
A cube won't fall through if you put the light bridge like this:
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/59469 ... B3DACD2B0/
This can actually prevent people from finding a solution! (and delayed me about 5 minutes) Why it should work on the other wall if it doesn't work on this one?

Also you can get on top with the cube like this:
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/59469 ... 2EE2F4784/
The cube is acting really weird if you grab it (it's movement is restricted). You should be able to grab it and take it with you or the repulsion field should go all the way up to the ceiling.
And if you put the cube high enough it gets stuck like this and you are also stuck:
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/59469 ... 0E2246447/

You can also grab the cube through the repulsion field. Again it's movement is restricted.

You can also block the ending panel if you stand like this:
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/59469 ... FBC1A28CB/

EDIT: I think that a laser beam should pass through the glass here (as it does in Valve's maps):
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/59469 ... 308959C0E/

Quote:
You can get where I'm at 3:14 without using the bridge. You can squeeze yourself through the gap between the wall and the "repulsion field".
At 3:44 an invisible wall is blocking me, that's annoying and I don't see any reason why it should be there.

"Getting there" was 'allowed' both ways but not catching the cube without using the light bridges. I had to leave a gap there (or the bridge would be stopped), however I somehow must have missed the easiest option of all.

Quote:
You can get stuck inside a panel.
- If you press a button and go near the pertaining panel:
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/59469 ... 734594A1F/
- If you trigger the "all panels raising" sequence and you stand on a panel before it raises:
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/7656 ... 7353687677

You can get stuck inside a door if you go back as it is closing:
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/59469 ... 84ECAB0B0/

I have a pyramid shaped vphysics_clip under the panels. Have to add a panel attached player clip, too. Thanks!

Quote:
Is this supposed to be the Sun? That cannot be the case because the Sun is so far away that it's position on the sky shouldn't change as you move around. Consider using the env_sun entity.
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/59469 ... E97D724F1/

Well yes, I thought a 'distant' star would be better than no light source. Yet you're right I should try an env_sun if that works. Will have to figure that out haven't used it, yet.

After all I really needed that feedback. I think I learned to look at mapping differently now and will concentrate on that. You can't imagine how grateful I am for all your efforts, thank you so much.

I think they should deliver the authoring tools with a warning: "Can cause addiction"

2CAE7256 wrote:
(I edited my first post to include more information)

I don't know what causes that ending issue.
I also have an issue with viewing a portal through a portal on all custom maps (it works correctly on valve's maps). You can see it at 0:39 - 0:42, it looks black. I didn't see other players having this issue, so the ending will probably work correctly for most players.

The usual answer is grapics card/drivers problem, I think. I really don't know. However I have really spend some time to find the right loop and music for the perfect combination. As a musician I would love to include my own music later on but I have (as you have kindly pointed out) other issues to solve first.

neco wrote:
Quote:

Firstly, how was I supposed to get the cube onto the button activating the excursion funnel? I ended up throwing it as I jumped through a high-up portal, but this took many tries to get right.

Well actually, that was the inovation which (I am still amazed) both my sons did it the way it was intended to. I will not tell you, yet. Perhaps I'll be able to avoid all other options first and update to beta3

Is this the intended way?
JpVahyc16g0

Oh dear, yes, well almost. You were supposed to use both panels placing the cube in the gap surrounding the panel (the edge pointing downwards in order to gain the right angle/momentum), though. When I replaced the brush with glas texture with the prop_static glas I forgot to accomodate the height, as I've learned now. The former height wouldn't have allowed to use the panel infront of the glas alone. Once having figured it out it's quite easy since I placed a lot of helpers like trigger_pushs and and a funnel shaped gravity vphysics_brush around the slanted area to help the cube in.

I tried to set the values in a way that no frustration should occur. Have tried it a dozen times until I at least made 2 out of 5 myself. Kick the cube!

I mean can't you guys simply follow the numbers, huh??? First: One Dot! Next comes: Two Dots! etc

I think that I've learned my lesson well. The motto seems to be: "Try it differently!"
I also have to prevent the panel buttons from being pushed after they are all raised. There is no disable IN/OUT for them as far as I know. Perhaps I might func_door_disappear 'em downwards........

2CAE7256 wrote:
I also have an issue with viewing a portal through a portal on all custom maps (it works correctly on valve's maps). You can see it at 0:39 - 0:42, it looks black. I didn't see other players having this issue, so the ending will probably work correctly for most players.

Try turning your shader quality up.

2CAE7256 wrote:
Oh! I forgot to mention these problems:
A cube won't fall through if you put the light bridge like this:
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/59469 ... B3DACD2B0/
This can actually prevent people from finding a solution! (and delayed me about 5 minutes) Why it should work on the other wall if it doesn't work on this one?

Also you can get on top with the cube like this:
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/59469 ... 2EE2F4784/
The cube is acting really weird if you grab it (it's movement is restricted). You should be able to grab it and take it with you or the repulsion field should go all the way up to the ceiling.
And if you put the cube high enough it gets stuck like this and you are also stuck:
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/59469 ... 0E2246447/

You can also grab the cube through the repulsion field. Again it's movement is restricted.

You can also block the ending panel if you stand like this:
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/59469 ... FBC1A28CB/

EDIT: I think that a laser beam should pass through the glass here (as it does in Valve's maps):
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/59469 ... 308959C0E/

I have tried to mend some of the problems you pointed out. The thing is that judging from the YouTube video you kindly provided, there is a problem with the behaviour of your player.
I know it sounds strange but it looks as if some player and object clips are ignored during your gameplay.

When you fall in the shaft at the end for example you shouldn't be caught or even touch the tubes surrounding the player. There is a 'player clip tube' which is meant to prevent that. Yet, your player (at 3:58) is caught by the corner of the tubing. It seems as if there is a semi "noclip" like behaviour of your player.

PS: Could you please check your inbox, maybe it is full...

I'm playing custom maps and record my first time of playing them. So the run is not perfect and may not use only intended ways, but maybe it can let you see how other people may understand the map or you could just enjoy someone playing this map for entertainment.
Anyways, here is the recording:

XYj-fh1RfnU
(Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYj-fh1RfnU)

Also note the video description for more feedback and my signature for additional project information.

I found this map, while interesting, to be so broken that it really was frustrating. When I solve puzzles, I don't run around aimlessly but tend to stand and think of the solution. This puzzle really did not work for that. There are some completely unintuitive pieces that I feel seriously detract from the gameplay unless they are made clear:

frustrating elements
- The excursion funnel remains on when the box is removed from its power switch.

- The initial door can be re-entered by walking near to it. It appears to close behind you and one would expect that it would not be opened again. At the very least, it would be expected that, if needed, some trigger (lighting [3] for example?) would open it.

- The panels can be lifted as a sequence of illuminating the laser catcher behind the door. The section [3] laser relays can be illuminated by pointing a box vertically, but then the player is left staring at the other [3] next to the closed door wondering what the next goal should be. Walking to the door causes it to open, at which point the player exits. When he reenters the room, the panels are raised. It isn't even immediately clear that this was caused by the catcher behind the door, because that catcher is no longer powered.

- Once the panels are raised, pressing the panel launch button lowers them, and breaks the room. Re-raising them does not even necessarily work even after you know what initiates the raise sequence in the first place.

- Three redirection cubes are locked behind panels and it appears that you need to light up all relays and catchers in this room to open those panels, or something. No matter what i lit up, I couldn't get that chamber open. Later I just saw that it "was open" and only afterward realized it was opened as part of the panel-raising sequence.

- ... etc ...
In short, the map is interesting, but relationships between room objects should be explained, either visually or even textually. The player should solve the puzzle, not solve how the room interacts with itself.

If these relationships were made clear, this map would easily be a 5/5 in my opinion. As an example, I did solve the "turn-on-the-excursion-funnel puzzle" by using the two panels and their buttons to launch the box as intended. This was an awesome puzzle element, and it was fun because the goal was well-labeled and clear: given two launchers and a box, place the box into the receptacle containing a box-button.

Ohhhhh dear, I can't believe it. I'm so stupid. It's sooooo embarrassing.
If NuclearDuckie hadn't mentionned the new posting and comments in his PM, I wouldn't have realised that there were new postings here. I am really sorry.
I always scrolled down the first page and found the last posting remaining the same without taking a look at the page number.

I'll definitely have to use the email notification.
Again, I'm very sorry. I will update to the latest version ASAP.



Shame on me....

Hi Djinndrache,

thank you very much for having made this video. I was able to mend some of the problems/issues with this version in the latest one. There may be others, though. I hope the next beta wont be that broken. Will try to make things more obvious and concentrate more on gameplay and gameflow.
The only thing that I haven't understood is why you didn't use the slanted areas to jump (cube in hand) on the panels? I thought this would be so obvious. Erare humanum est...
Should add some "jump through portal" sinage.
With the next version I hope you'll have a better gameflow and some confusing/intersecting parts are discarded anyway.

Thank you for having taken the time to make the video it is very useful in understanding how others come to different solutions. It shows many mistakes which I could have avoided in the first place.

Hi Ruien,
Thank you for having taken the time to play and for your detailed comments. As I've written (see above), I'm really sorry for not having replied much earlier.

Quote:
I found this map, while interesting, to be so broken that it really was frustrating. When I solve puzzles, I don't run around aimlessly but tend to stand and think of the solution. This puzzle really did not work for that. There are some completely unintuitive pieces that I feel seriously detract from the gameplay unless they are made clear:

Well, what can I say you're right. I think I was a little bit too hasty even for a beta version. I should have asked a few first to take a look at it and thus avoid the crudest mistakes.

Quote:
The excursion funnel remains on when the box is removed from its power switch.

Fixed......at least in a certain way.

Quote:
Walking to the door causes it to open, at which point the player exits. When he reenters the room, the panels are raised. It isn't even immediately clear that this was caused by the catcher behind the door, because that catcher is no longer powered.

I added that stupid laser catcher to prevent an annoying fast reset with the cube below the laser relays. Have added some indicator lights and tried to prevent unintended solutions which might ruin the joy of playing the map.

Quote:
Three redirection cubes are locked behind panels and it appears that you need to light up all relays and catchers in this room to open those panels, or something. No matter what i lit up, I couldn't get that chamber open. Later I just saw that it "was open" and only afterward realized it was opened as part of the panel-raising sequence.

I hope that with the additional indicator lights this might be more obvious now. I will think about it.

Quote:
This was an awesome puzzle element, and it was fun because the goal was well-labeled and clear: given two launchers and a box, place the box into the receptacle containing a box-button.

I actually have removed that "cube kicking" element completely. I thought it simply might be too frustrating. Even when you know how it works you might need a couple of tries.

Now reading that you liked that element, I feel quite unsure about removing it or not......???

NuclearDuckie has helped me with some improvements, yet I am not sure about it. He suggest v-shaped indent around the first/nearest main panel and removing the indents for the others for making things more obvious. I already made a version like that and might switch back to that version if you think it's worth it. As NuclearDuckie also pointed out that is the "momentum" part of the map.....

The map creator asked me to test a new (yet unreleased) version of this map, so there we go.

First of all the new version looks better! And happily it seems to no longer have the bug with the funny behavior of those platforms in the first room. In my old video (browse this thread, you'll find it) you can see how they shoot my cubes through all the room sometimes. It looked funny but was quite annoying to place all the cubes again, so nice fix here. Also I noted some portal areas were modified, guess they're supposed to help me; I'd prefer my freedom on setting portals for amazing ninja-laser-shooting though
The last puzzle is still a bit annoying as it's tricky to get the cube sliding when it landed on the floor once, but at least it's possible. If you don't understand what I mean by this, watch the video and you probably will.

Feedback on the first and the last room only? Huh? Well, ninja action! I ninja'd the laser crazily through all the room in the first puzzle and got 3 (!!) cubes left, so I could skip all the second puzzle because I had more than enough cubes left! I didn't even plan this until it happened. Awesome me!

There you go for the recording of my run:

uwDpqUFOreM
(Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwDpqUFOreM)

As always it's a firstrun-recording, but note that I played an earlier version of this map before (quite some while ago though), so it's not completely new to me.

Also a little reply in this posting:

neco wrote:
The only thing that I haven't understood is why you didn't use the slanted areas to jump (cube in hand) on the panels? I thought this would be so obvious. Erare humanum est...

Uhm.. I don't know. Maybe I didn't feel like it =) It's quite some while ago that I recorded the first video, can't remember all of my tentions.

Also in this new run I still don't know what those slanted areas are made for. So I decided to use them for ninja action to not make them seem useless Maybe I'm just too focused on ninjaing that I don't even see the real way anymore.

Djinndrache wrote:
Also in this new run I still don't know what those slanted areas are made for. So I decided to use them for ninja action to not make them seem useless Maybe I'm just too focused on ninjaing that I don't even see the real way anymore.

Yes, your ninja qualities were the ones I was particularly interested in when asking you to betatest this map. As I have tried to explain that you can use the portable area in the small room with the three reflective cubes and one of the slanted areas to jump onto the panels without using a cube for climbing or trying to reach the cube standing on the floor.

Quote:
The map creator asked me to test a new (yet unreleased) version of this map, so there we go.

I actually asked you via PM because I honestly thought you would respond via PM. Else I would have uploaded the latest version without having been pretested.

Again, I have to admit that I obviously can't predict ninja action to avoid new/alternative ways of solving a puzzle. Will have to work on that or quit mapping at all.....

neco wrote:
I have to admit that I obviously can't predict ninja action to avoid new/alternative ways of solving a puzzle. Will have to work on that or quit mapping at all.....

You wont ever make a un-ninja-able map, as nobody can. Even the original Portal maps get ninja'd in many ways by many users. That should not keep you away from mapping. Some people just like finding their own ways, is that actually bad?

Djinndrache wrote:
You wont ever make a un-ninja-able map, as nobody can. Even the original Portal maps get ninja'd in many ways by many users. That should not keep you away from mapping. Some people just like finding their own ways, is that actually bad?

If you can skip a whole (mini-) test chamber like that?! YES! Else,......of course not!

I for instance can't do all that super flinging stuff, throwing cubes, use glitches etc.
I have sloth like reflexes but am a (keyboard) shortcut wizard

c1ey8EnVSiA

Watch the ending carefully!

neco wrote:
If you can skip a whole (mini-) test chamber like that?! YES! Else,......of course not!

I for instance can't do all that super flinging stuff, throwing cubes, use glitches etc.

Mh, kill two of the reflector cubes then. You just don't need them, that's not even really ninjaing, it's just shooting lasers in a much cooler way

Djinndrache wrote:
Mh, kill two of the reflector cubes then. You just don't need them, that's not even really ninjaing, it's just shooting lasers in a much cooler way

Acutally I can't do that because the smaller chamber belonging to the bigger one requires those reflective cubes to be solved properly.

Have you tried the latest version beta 3_8?? Would like to see you "ninja-ing" those mean little additions. Feel free to upload it here if you like

Have fun...

PS: Check your PM please....inbox overload???

Hi Neco,

First of all I want to say that this map, which I've found just by chance into the WIPs, really attracts you from the very beginning when you face the chamber. After a first glance, you notice many elements placed in just a small space (reminds me of PMK-6 a bit), and most of them with a singular good visual taste. My favourite is the launching of the cube up "playing basketball"... altogether with the laser targets in a row on the front wall.

There is a lot of fun (only partially clouded by some bugs) and intelligence in the puzzles. And when you realize that it's kinda a mappack then it becomes even better!

I would like to help as much I as I can because I would like this map to be polished before final release... I think it really deserves the help.

As many people before said, the reflectocubes stay in suspension after being connected by the laser beam and after removing the plates under them. This is not at all the first time I see this bug, you have to be missing some attibute related to the laser beam or the reflectocubes (I'm sorry for not being of help with this as I'm not a mapper, take the advises of some other mappers that are posting here). All I can say, in the case it could help, is that if you take one intermediate cube of the line composed by the 3 engaged suspended cubes, the ones that don't receive the laser beam fall down, the ones that keep receiving the laser beam stay suspended...

Apart from that, I would still remove a few unnecessary elements:


- One of the 2 switch buttons that makes the square-shaped plates launch up can be removed, only one of them is useful: that one for scoring the cube into "the basket".
- In the upper little room, I guess that you have put a reflectocube respawner there just in case any cube you broght to this room dissapears by the fizzler. Though it is a bit strange that even if you have destroyed only a normal cube you receive 2 reflectocubes, don't you think? There must be any way for making the spawner to spawn only what was destroyed; on the other hand, the first time you found the reflectocubes was in the room below, there must be a spawner there, not upstairs.
- The piece of floor that can be lifted up by placing a cube on one of the cube buttons near the exit door that connects the 1st floor room with the 2nd floor room, doesn't have to be lifted at all: once you've got the cube from the main room with you it can help you reach the elevator as in my playthrough. If you really want that way, you should lower that piece of floor: this way, the cube cannot be taken to the upper room and be used (as in my playthrough).
- Once the main room is completely solved (with the 2 strips switched to "OK"), you should change the status of that room, for example lowering the square-shaped plates and leaving just 1 laser remaining; of course the reflectocubes will fall down. This way you erase the bug of the suspended cubes and let the player concentrate in the next part.

Regarding the next chamber, I've got no objections, but quite the opposite, I loved it! It's a really awesome puzzle, very clever! BTW, your custom barrier of white lasers is brilliant! thanks for that!

I've made a playthrough so you can check out how I solved it:

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Hi josepezdj,

thank you very much for your input and having taken the time to play. I will of course change the things you kindly pointed out. I am not sure if I necessarily will do something to avoid the cube/laser bug, though.

Quote:
- One of the 2 switch buttons that makes the square-shaped plates launch up can be removed, only one of them is useful: that one for scoring the cube into "the basket".

You are supposed to use both panels. The cube should be placed where the v-shaped indents are around the panel (the one closer to the buttons). I thought that I found a proper way to force this but obviously I must have overlooked something. Perhaps I will implement a solution which I used priorly. Have to take a closer look at that.

Quote:
- In the upper little room, I guess that you have put a reflectocube respawner there just in case any cube you broght to this room dissapears by the fizzler. Though it is a bit strange that even if you have destroyed only a normal cube you receive 2reflectocubes, don't you think? There must be any way for making the spawner to spawn only what was destroyed; on the other hand, the first time you found the reflectocubes was in the room below, there must be a spawner there, not upstairs

It wasn't intended at all being able to climb to the elevator using the cube. That's an epic fail but that's typically me
After having removed that stupid mistake the normal cube remains in its slot (prop_floor_cube_button) and can't be taken to the upper room, therefore the cube dropper is needed there. Just where the fizzler might dissolve a reflective cube.

Quote:
- Once the main room is completely solved (with the 2 strips switched to "OK"), you should change the status of that room, for example lowering the square-shaped plates and leaving just 1 laser remaining; of course the reflectocubes will fall down. This way you erase the bug of the suspended cubes and let the player concentrate in the next part.

The intention is that the player himself/herself has to destroy the first puzzle in order to solve the second one. At that point only one of the lasers can be used for the upper room, since the portable panel slid to a position where it faces one laser.
In the meantime I already added two other test chambers and made some considerable changes to the ones you already played. Should you be interested in giving it a try and beta/play test the latest version feel free to drop me a line via PM and I'll send you the download link.
This of course goes for other forum members as well. I would be really glad if two or three others could offer their help.
Apart from the constant input of NuclearDuckie, who has helped me a lot with his great ideas and criticism, I haven't had that much feedback since I have uploaded the current version.
I'd rather like to have a playable map without major bugs before releasing the latest version.
Again, thank you very much josepezdj, your input and video were very useful!