Database Data

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Spam Nugget
492 Posts
Posted Nov 01, 2011
Replied 3 hours later
Good for them. But there is a lot of older maps up there still, I found one of mine. I certainly didnt give the bastard permission to put it up there. You want one database for all the available maps on all the databases ou there? Fine. Give links to the databases. Dont put the maps there yourself without permission. What happened to intellectual property?
Ill certainly be completeing DMCA request.

EDIT: Oh and for any non-Americans, according to the DMCA website it looks like its all good, you can still send the request in.

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AntiVector
102 Posts
Posted Nov 01, 2011
Replied 25 minutes later
Like others have said, I don't mind having my map copied, but asking first would be polite and courteous.

What I don't like about this site is that it's pulling traffic away from the most respectable Portal 2 community out there (this one) into its own not-yet-tested system. Even if PortalDB is a huge success, It's pulling apart the community. There should just be one reliable site to post Portal-related custom content, and that site should be TWP.

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msleeper
4,095 Posts
Member
Posted Nov 01, 2011
Replied 5 minutes later
The fact that the person blatently scraped our site's content - between August 9th and 11th it looks like, based on the web server logs - shows to me they don't care about permission. And that's why I'm urging all of the map authors to file a DMCA on the host.
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Stylus
50 Posts
Posted Nov 01, 2011
Replied 4 hours later
Hello everyone.

It's been a long time since i last posted here. I'm actually working on my 2nd map atm. I just didn't find any time or inspiration to map something that's worth publishing on this website. But this is beside the point.

I've got an email and after reading some/most of the posts here I got a better picture of what people think of this. 1st of all I get what msleeper is trying to say. Who ever made the website did it without any permission from mappers and owners of this website(msleeper i suppose).
But i also think that we can all learn from this experience. I decided to google my map(wasn't really creative with map name) and found out that a lot of people have decided to upload them to different websites. Luckily for me on all of them I was named as author, even on a french site . Anyway this was kinda of the point so let me get back to it. IF you look at the portalDB website you'll see a lot of improvement that TWP.com could implement and make this website even better. For example the search is very simple and there for it's easy to find maps. Search by number of downloads, rating, uploaded date and stuff like that make it easier for people to find maps they might want to play and that site has managed to do this. Unfortunately I can't say this for TWP and i wish this kind of things were added. And I'm speaking from my own experience when i say that usually I end up search stuff by date added and the number of dls. When searching for something new i go with date and when I just feel like playing a quality map on my own or with my friends I look up to dl count and rating.

Anyway i'll stop here i've managed to type a lot without really saying much but you know..that's what foreigners do

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MasterLagger
1,695 Posts
Posted Nov 01, 2011
Replied 3 hours later

msleeper wrote:
So I hate to dig this up out of the grave, but I've finally looked into it and it's obvious to me that this site is both 1.) stealing a lot of our traffic, and 2.) rehosting YOUR content without YOUR permission.

I have gone ahead and filed a DMCA Takedown request with the host as an umbrella, since TWP is originally hosting this content. Anyone who does not want their map hosted there, or who feels that they should have been asked permission for this prior to it being rehosted, is strongly urged to file a similar DMCA takedown. Here is an example DMCA, and the addresses it needs to be mailed to:

MAIL TO THESE ADDRESSES
```
[email protected], [email protected], [email protected], [email protected]

> DMCA TAKEDOWN
> Copy in full, fill in your information, look for content in [BRACKETS]
>
> ```
October 31, 2011
>
> [YOUR NAME]
> [YOUR EMAIL]
> [YOUR PHONE NUMBER]
> [YOUR FULL MAILING ADDRESS]
>
> Stratoserver.net, Strato AG
> C/O Copyright Agent for Notice of Claims of Copyright Infringement
>
> Sent via: Email
> DMCA Notice of Copyright Infringement
> re: Copyright infringement of hosted content
>
> Dear Stratoserver.net, Strato AG,
>
> Please take appropriate action to disable access to the infringing
> materials described below, in accordance with the provisions of the
> Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998.
>
> Should you require further information regarding this matter, please
> feel free to return email, or if necessary, call me by phone. Thank
> you for your quick assistance and cooperation.
>
> Regards,
>
> [YOUR NAME]
>
> ELECTRONIC NOTICE OF COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT
>
> I, the undersigned, CERTIFY UNDER PENALTY OF PERJURY that I am an
> agent authorized to act on behalf of the owner of certain intellectual
> property rights, said owner being named:
>
> [YOUR NAME], original copyright holder
>
> I have a good faith belief that the items or materials listed below
> are not authorized by the above IP Owners, their agents, or the law
> and therefore infringe the IP Owner's rights. Please act expeditiously
> to remove or disable access to the material or items claimed to be
> infringing.
>
> I may be contacted at:
>
> [YOUR NAME]
> [YOUR EMAIL]
> [YOUR PHONE NUMBER]
> [YOUR FULL MAILING ADDRESS]
>
> My actual or electronic signature follows:
>
> /s/ [YOUR NAME]
>
> Allegedly Infringing items or materials:
>
> Infringed Work or Right:
> - Content uploaded without original author's permission
>
> Location of ORIGINAL WORKS:
> - [URL to your file downloads, IE:]
> - http://forums.thinking.withportals.com/downloads.php?view=detail&df_id=xxxx
>
> URL(s) of Infringed Works or Right:
> - http://www.portaldb.net/maps

Yes, you have to fill out all of the information there for it to be a "valid" DMCA request.

I have also taken measures for this person to no longer be able to scrape content from our site, and I'm going to be looking into the appropriate cyberlaws that would apply to maliciously copying content like this.

It was Halloween, so I expected something coming back from the dead.

Has this issue continued since August 21? I just check the PortalDB website and the person hasn't uploaded any new maps (that I could tell). I get where msleeper is coming from; however, taking action now seems a bit too late. If the person/site manager hasn't taken down the maps that authors told him to (he posted he would take down maps if people e-mailed him), then I would feel the need to file a DMCA.

Avatar
T3rm1
5 Posts
Posted Nov 01, 2011
Replied 1 hour later
Anyone is welcome to write me an email if he/she doesn't want his/her map on my site. Three people have done this so far and I removed their map. This is absolutely no problem.

For now I also linked back to your site. What do you mean with "steal traffic". How is this a bad thing? If I have less traffic I pay less money for it. This is actually good for me

Also note that my website doesn't have any advertisement. I don't gain anything with it. I only provide a place where you can search easily for maps. I have received a lot (!) emails from users who appreciate this work. Thanks a lot for this. Those emails make sure I keep the service running.

@Michelle: You never tried to contact me. If you have any problem or doesn't like certain things then talk about it. How should I know that you dislike another place for Portal 2 maps.

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FourthReaper
356 Posts
Posted Nov 01, 2011
Replied 17 minutes later
I kinda' see where everybody's coming from, but is there really still a problem here? I found two of my maps on portaldb.net - was naturally pretty darn surprised - but clicked the download link and subsequently found that I was linked back to my maps on ThinkingWithPortals. Actually, ALL the data there seemed to be in coherence with that here.
Also, I was shocked to see the massive amount of downloads there, and am sort of confused: Does that number indicate clicks on the link, or actual downloads? Because the number is really quite close to the number of downloads I got here.

Also, to T3rm1: I don't mind you posting my maps, you have my consent. I can, however, not speak for everyone here. A little more display of compassion wouldn't hurt, although linking to TWP is really good.

PS: I don't get this one thing though. People want to adress DMCA to take down their stuff. An email to the site, wich stated it would take it down too, is far easier, right? Anyway, good luck to everyone sorting this thing out.

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msleeper
4,095 Posts
Member
Posted Nov 01, 2011
Replied 1 hour later

FourthReaper wrote:
but clicked the download link and subsequently found that I was linked back to my maps on ThinkingWithPortals.

This changed, as of yesterday the content was hosted on their site and did not link back here.

FourthReaper wrote:
PS: I don't get this one thing though. People want to adress DMCA to take down their stuff. An email to the site, wich stated it would take it down too, is far easier, right? Anyway, good luck to everyone sorting this thing out.

The DMCA notice requires a physical mailing address, otherwise it's not "valid".

T3rm1 wrote:
@Michelle: You never tried to contact me. If you have any problem or doesn't like certain things then talk about it. How should I know that you dislike another place for Portal 2 maps.

I did contact you. I sent you a DMCA. That's the only form of contact I need regarding this issue. Comply with the DMCA notice or I'll continue to take up the matter with your host.

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MasterLagger
1,695 Posts
Posted Nov 01, 2011
Replied 7 minutes later
What exactly is on the DMCA?
Edit: I mean the DMCA that msleeper typed.

I need to see both sides of this, I also feel uneasy since this issue took place several months ago and it was resolved (to a certain extent); but as msleeper said, that the PortalDB site isn't redirecting the download to this site anymore as the PortalDB site manager posted it would be monthes ago. I can be tolerant some things to a certain point but not upholding you're (T3rm1) previous statement:
"In addition I'm going to add a link and note to each of the maps that is also hosted on TWP. I will link to the specific thread just like portal2maps.net does. This is really no problem."
This make me question your sincerity about this.

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T3rm1
5 Posts
Posted Nov 01, 2011
Replied 21 minutes later
Michelle you broke your download section. It doesn't work for every browser. I offer my help to fix this problem if you can't solve it yourself!

I already linked back to TWP because for some odd reasons you don't like a free mirror. Please note that I don't have to do this.
You don't have any license agreement on your site. Please take a look at the Valve license (Hammer Editor). Also, the DMCA is a law in the United States. I don't even offend against it since I don't violete any copyrights (authors name is still shown, download is not modified).

To be honest I have really no idea what your problem is.

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RageCompeX
65 Posts
Posted Nov 01, 2011
Replied 11 minutes later
I dont rlly care, they provide my name so it's cool to me
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msleeper
4,095 Posts
Member
Posted Nov 01, 2011
Replied 26 minutes later
My problem is that you have taken the backwards stance of "if you don't like your map here, tell me and I'll take it down". Rather than asking permission first before hosting the files there. But really my problem is that you blatantly scraped my site for our content using a Java bot.

You're not doing me a favor by being a "free mirror". I don't want a free mirror.

And you clearly have a very poor understanding of the EULA if you think that you're allowed to rehost files without the author's permission, or that someone who makes a map does not retain copyright to their intellectual property, just because it's a map for a Source engine game.

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MasterLagger
1,695 Posts
Posted Nov 01, 2011
Replied 32 minutes later
Very good point and just for the record: even Valve has the courtesy of asking third-party mappers to use their maps (Ex. Cold Stream of L4D2, some of the Team Fortress 2 maps were made by third-party groups/individuals) to use as official maps/campaigns.
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msleeper
4,095 Posts
Member
Posted Nov 01, 2011
Replied 3 minutes later
I'm not certain on the L4D2 campaign but I can't imagine it's different, but I know that for the TF2 maps that Valve paid the original mappers for the copyright to the map. At that point, and at that point only, did the original author lose copyright against their map.
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MasterLagger
1,695 Posts
Posted Nov 01, 2011
Replied 3 minutes later
True, they did lose copyright, but they still got credit for it (in regards to the TF2 maps). Cold Stream was created by Matthew Lourdelet, but I don't know the whole story with that. I would think that the mapper(s) would be informed about losing copyright when Valve is discussing about buying maps.
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spongylover123
944 Posts
Posted Nov 01, 2011
Replied 35 minutes later
The EULA states that any software valve make has their rights

Quote:
All title, ownership rights and intellectual property rights in and to the Software and any and all copies thereof are owned by Valve and/or its licensors. All rights reserved, except as expressly stated herein. The Software is protected by the copyright laws of the United States, international copyright treaties and conventions and other laws. The Software contains certain licensed materials and Valve's licensors may protect their rights in the event of any violation of this Agreement.

It also states that what you make is yours.

Quote:
All title, ownership rights and intellectual property rights in and to the Software and any and all copies thereof are owned by Valve and/or its licensors. All rights reserved, except as expressly stated herein. The Software is protected by the copyright laws of the United States, international copyright treaties and conventions and other laws. The Software contains certain licensed materials and Valve's licensors may protect their rights in the event of any violation of this Agreement

It also states that

Quote:
Except as otherwise permitted under Section 2(C) with regard to the SDK, you may not, in whole or in part, COPY, photocopy, reproduce, translate, reverse engineer, derive source code, modify, disassemble, decompile, create derivative works based on, or remove any proprietary notices or labels from the Software or any software accessed via Steam without the prior consent, in writing, of Valve.

What I'm saying is you have no right to do anything with our map except playing it, other things are only with consent of the creator. You also have no right to redistribute maps that you downloaded.

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T3rm1
5 Posts
Posted Nov 01, 2011
Replied 47 minutes later
Sorry but that's not true.
Valve owns this map. So Valve has the copyright. I don't like that the author loses all rights, too. This sucks.
Another important thing is that this is a user license agreement. A license agreement or parts of it are only valid if they don't violate any laws.

For a better understanding read the following example: If you buy an IPhone it is legal to jailbreak it since you are allowed to do whatever you want with hardware you own (this is a law). However you violate the EULA of apple. Apple may now take action (e.g. prevent you from using certain feature; warranty voids). There is no way to enforce an EULA by law.

Again: Anyone can email me if he doesn't want his map on this site. Since only 3 people did this so far I assume most authors appreciate a wider distribution of their map.

Kind regards!

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Spam Nugget
492 Posts
Posted Nov 01, 2011
Replied 5 minutes later
The point is that we shouldnt have to email you. you should never have put them on the site without permission.
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msleeper
4,095 Posts
Member
Posted Nov 01, 2011
Replied 5 minutes later

T3rm1 wrote:
Sorry but that's not true.
Valve owns this map. So Valve has the copyright. I don't like that the author loses all rights, too. This sucks.

This is 100% incorrect.

I also have no choice at this point but to continue to take action with your host as you are unwilling to remove the content from your site.

I again want to urge any map authors who do not want their content to be redistributed without their permission to file the DMCA claim back on page 3 of this thread. Thanks.