IMPORTANT NOTE: A recent update to Portal 2 has broken one of the gameplay mechanics involved in the solution. As a result this map is no longer playable; it requires a very substantial update so as to circumvent that gameplay element.

A small and difficult map.
The solution involves some dynamic moves which are not too hard to perform, but none of them are luck-based. A bit of trial (not too much) will probably be needed to fully recognize how to execute the complete solution.

This is my first mapping experience (or anything 3-D related for that matter). Thanks to grayarea, lpfreaky90 and josepezdj for playtesting and giving initial feedback.
View ReadMe.txt for more details (including how to install).

Changelog:

v1.1 - Hopefully fixed unintended exploit
v1.2 - More tweaks to remove some unintended tricks
v1.3 - Reverted back and added changes to fix unintended tricks

File Name: sp_dispersed_v1_3.rar
File Size: 1.77 MiB
Click here to download Dispersed

Please wait 5 minutes... can't wait to try it, i hope it's not brain damager because all the maps i have played were extremely difficult to play, and i have stoped to play some of them because they were to hard, i feel just stupid.

Pretty nice so far - now I just have to find a way to place a cube on the laser-deactivation-button.

Apparently I'm stupid!
30 minutes of play and managed only to put lasers to reverse funnel but I do not understand what should I do now.

Hey nice puzzle for your first map...
Pretty sure its not the complete intended one but I'll upload my video soon!
I smacked my head when I found out how to disable the laserfield ;D
Very nice trick never saw that before.

PS: I don't think this is medium difficulty. I took me about 20-30 min and only because I'm very familiar with the mechanics. I would say this is a hard one. But anyways good job!.
4-eoA7HzOlo

Impressive first map. Kept me thinking for almost 30 minutes. I would say that it is somewhere between medium and hard difficulty, but never frustrating or unfair.
Thanks for creating. Good job!

Edit: I just watched marKiu's video and I solved it in the same way. So I'm not the only one who didn't use the reverse funnel laser.

Hey;

I tried to solve the map when it was still in progress and it didn't have the ledge yet. With it it's a lot more obvious what to do and a lot easier too. Still I think the cube throwing and placing cubes on edges are (very) advanced techniques; it's something I personally don't like. But I don't know if this is the intended solution or not.

One small mapping thing I didn't notice in the beta because I never managed to disable the first fixxler is that the fizzler isn't dynamic, it looks a lot better when it's dynamic

Other then that great job on making a hard puzzle. (One thing about making maps is that often you spent a lot of time in a map and the solution grows extremely obvious to you (since you already solved it a gazillion times in your head)) This makes it hard to properly estimate the difficulty level

It sure is not a medium difficulty map.Should be listed as hard at a minimum.I'm at the laser field now and taking a break.Was difficult to figure out just what exactly were supposed to do in the beginning

I would agree with the others that this was a hard map -- and satisfying to play. I solved it as MarKiu did, but I used an extra step to get the cube on the lightbridge button; I didn't think of the old cube-falling-off-the-ledge trick. Once I placed the cube inside the other room, I opened the fizzler again and shot a portal from the main room onto the exit-door wall then activated the funnel. Once the cube is against that wall, if it didn't land on the button it was easy enough to move it there. This is a great first map.

Here is the my solution to dispersed. I did it the same as RogerL.

dispersed_dem_file.zip

If MarKiu's vid is actually the intended way then its a game of chance.Throwing cubes should never be part of a puzzle.The game is portal not cube toss lol

The cube toss isn't that much of a toss. Believe me, I can't toss a cube to save my life, and I've died plenty of times trying. Once I got the idea, it took me two tries. Its more of a jump and reach is all that is needed.

Fun map, and a decent challenge. I didn't mind so much about chucking the cubes around; I love that sort of thing, but sometimes placing the floor portals was a bit of a pain in the ass. Maybe some portal placement helpers would be handy, without giving the game away too much!

At first I put the orange funnel through the grate to grab the companion cube sitting on the laser grid's ledge.. then drop it onto the button. You're supposed to be able to grab the cube through the grating, right? Then after a bunch of confusion I figured it was maybe best to be in the laser room - sounds a lot like RogerL's version of events.. Misdirection ftw!

Anyway here's my final seriously unintended solution
TA_0EPXLwnY
(unlisted link, gimme a toot if you want it removed ^^)

First of all, credit to marKiu for coming up with a solution.
I feel really stupid, because grayarea came up with the initial tricks used during playtesting, and I should have properly removed them. marKiu's way in the final room is intended though.

@andyb : I agree, I also don't like random cube throwing. But the method to put the second cube on the bridge button in the final room is fairly reliable. While testing I got it about 8 out of 10 times. RogerL's method of activating the funnel and rushing into the last room is what I intended, and shouldn't take many tries (hopefully). In that, you don't have to "toss" the cube as much as just release it during the jump.

Hopefully marKiu won't mind if I attempt to block the majority of his solution, as it's totally unintended.

I'll release the new version soon.

lpfreaky90 wrote:
I tried to solve the map when it was still in progress and it didn't have the ledge yet.

Eyyyy... me neither!! This is unfair... I tilted the cube by opening a portal on the floor while another was opened on the wall where the laser beam ended in the time I jumped onto the floor_button to activate the orange funnel... This only for dot-1! and it took my like one thousand tries to finally point to the laser_catcher of dot-1.

Anyway, very good puzzle for a first map. I'll try the next version when released.

Cheer up Xtreger!

(Refer my previous post on page 1, the second-last one)
Alright I've now released the new version that should probably disallow previous unintended tricks.

@lpfreaky90 and josepezdj : Don't worry - a substantial part of the puzzle is still remaining. So you can keep trying if you want


I've also changed the difficulty to medium/hard. Looks like I couldn't properly gauge it before...

Firstly just want to say that this is an incredible first-map effort from Xtreger. I didn't help very much, but it was a privilege to playtest it before release. I hope we can convince him to make more maps because they will get even better.

andyb: I'm glad to hear you're taking a break. Hopefully for a few months. We all need a little less of your negativity and a little more encouragement in my opinion. Let's see what you're capable of creating.

It's essentially impossible for a map maker to judge the difficulty of their own map, so the discussion about medium versus hard is completely pointless. Maybe there should just be a player rating system for difficulty as well as quality. It should also be noted that difficulty has been progressively increasing as more maps get released and the envelope keeps getting pushed. Obviously I'm all in favour of that, but it also means that "hard" maps from 6+ months ago should probably now be considered "medium". Just a thought..

grayarea wrote:
Firstly just want to say that this is an incredible first-map effort from Xtreger. I didn't help very much, but it was a privilege to playtest it before release. I hope we can convince him to make more maps because they will get even better.

andyb: I'm glad to hear you're taking a break. Hopefully for a few months. We all need a little less of your negativity and a little more encouragement in my opinion. Let's see what you're capable of creating.

It's essentially impossible for a map maker to judge the difficulty of their own map, so the discussion about medium versus hard is completely pointless. Maybe there should just be a player rating system for difficulty as well as quality. It should also be noted that difficulty has been progressively increasing as more maps get released and the envelope keeps getting pushed. Obviously I'm all in favour of that, but it also means that "hard" maps from 6+ months ago should probably now be considered "medium". Just a thought..

Andyb isn't that negative is he? He's just saying he doesn't like gimic-y techniques

And about difficulty: it's so extremely different for people. There's a map in Portal Stories two playtesters have played so far. It took 40 minutes for person 1 and less then 10 for person 2. Person one rated it 9/10 difficulty; person 2 6/10. Another map even had 3/10 and 10/10 difficulty.

lpfreaky90 wrote:
Andyb isn't that negative is he? He's just saying he doesn't like gimic-y techniques

And about difficulty: it's so extremely different for people. There's a map in Portal Stories two playtesters have played so far. It took 40 minutes for person 1 and less then 10 for person 2. Person one rated it 9/10 difficulty; person 2 6/10. Another map even had 3/10 and 10/10 difficulty.

Yeah I concur... Different people have different tastes and andyb was merely expressing his opinion about one aspect. Above all I'd be happy if people enjoyed this map rather than taking it too seriously

Nah It's just that I never heard a positive word from that guy.

Anyway, as for the difficulty aspect, lpfreaky I think we're agreeing actually. Since difficulty is so subjective and varies massively from person to person, it shouldn't be left to the map maker to define the difficulty level (or quality!) in the description. In many ways, the map maker is the least qualified person to do so because they're the only one who knows the solution from the start.

Updated to version 1.2

This attempts to correct the loophole in version 1.1 fix.

Xtreger wrote:
Updated to version 1.2

This attempts to correct the loophole in version 1.1 fix.

Oh, no!!!! I just finished 1.1! Do I really have to start over again? Is the basic idea to balance the cube in the wall portal aiming through the floor portal? I actually got that to work for all three catchers. If that is what was intended, then I have to say its awfully fiddly -- almost grayarea fiddly.

EDIT: Nevermind, I just took a look at ver. 1.2 and your change doesn't affect my solution.

I found some funny solutions
I'm sure RogerL used the same ones for dot1 and dot3.


DOT1


DOT2
This was such a pain to set up With a few tries you can jump over the bridge. I know this is not the intended solution since you had that wall blocking the laser in v1.0 but i liked this so much
cbOJXClNA-I

DOT3

Oh god, either I'm missing something or that was insanely fiddly :S
I kinda liked V1, it was a decent challenge without being OTT.. (again.. unless i'm missing something).

Loving the creative solutions btw marKiu applause.

marKiu wrote:
I found some funny solutions
I'm sure RogerL used the same ones for dot1 and dot3.

Nope, not even close. Here is my method:

** Video Deleted **

RogerL wrote:
marKiu wrote:

I found some funny solutions
I'm sure RogerL used the same ones for dot1 and dot3.

Nope, not even close. Here is my method:

VU7SaGyP6LM

Lol.. I tried that a few times too, but the vertical facing portal's gravity made it pretty tricky. How many attempts did that take?

It took quite awhile the first attempt because you can't see the laser coming out. I first thought there was a bug or something, then I accidently ran into it and it seared me. Then I knew I was onto something. After you try it a few times it actually becomes fairly easy, though still fiddly.

I tried this too, but the cube always dropped... U guys noticed that over dot2 the wall is coming out about 1 inch? So you can do that move very easily at the upper portable wall. maybe thats for a reason?
I'm going to sleep now! Tomorrow evening I want so see a solution guys! GOGO

I finished the entire map using this method. But it is surely unintended. The nice thing is, there is no way the mapmaker can block this solution. And this method breaks a lot of other maps as well.

RogerL wrote:
I finished the entire map using this method. But it is surely unintended. The nice thing is, there is no way the mapmaker can block this solution. And this method breaks a lot of other maps as well.

Heh, it's not even blocked if you place another cube for example in the line of sight?
I.e. just a visual bug?

sicklebrick wrote:
RogerL wrote:

I finished the entire map using this method. But it is surely unintended. The nice thing is, there is no way the mapmaker can block this solution. And this method breaks a lot of other maps as well.

Heh, it's not even blocked if you place another cube for example in the line of sight?
I.e. just a visual bug?

I don't know. I need to play with this some more to find out what the hell is going on. It could be an engine bug, it could be a video settings bug, it may even have a logical explanation. Whatever is going on, I don't think Valve is going to like it. Notice that it has many of the same characteristics as your Double Gubble.

RogerL wrote:
sicklebrick wrote:

RogerL wrote:

I finished the entire map using this method. But it is surely unintended. The nice thing is, there is no way the mapmaker can block this solution. And this method breaks a lot of other maps as well.

Heh, it's not even blocked if you place another cube for example in the line of sight?
I.e. just a visual bug?

I don't know. I need to play with this some more to find out what the hell is going on. It could be an engine bug, it could be a video settings bug, it may even have a logical explanation. Whatever is going on, I don't think Valve is going to like it. Notice that it has many of the same characteristics as your Double Gubble.

I think what's probably happening is that the laser beam comes from the center of the cube and is catching on the side of the portal, whereas the actual vector trace starts a couple of tiny units from the outside of the cube (to avoid tracing through itsself). The beam itsself will be cosmetic and not entirely necessary, but it seems you've found something thin enough to wedge between them. Gotta play with this sometime

@marKiu : I was made aware of your dot1 and dot2 solutions during playtesting, but I didn't have enough foresight to remove them But now I guess they should be blocked. Your solution for dot2 is pretty cool! I tried it myself, though it was difficult to set up, as you said (it's not intended though )

@RogerL : Nice job finding and moreover implementing that trick, it's new to me and I hadn't thought of it.

Version 1.3 is up and in that I've raised the floor portalable surface again (which I'd depressed and added stairs to). Now it shouldn't be possible to hit the wall surface directly with the laser. But anyway let me know if it still happens.

I found something else to activate all three dots
It's kinda fiddly to set up too, but with the squares on the ground it could be close to your intended solution...
I try to make a short video and upload my solution.

*Here are the videos
Pretty simple if you understand that the floor portal (vertical axis) adjusts the horizontal angle of the cube. In other words the axes just switch.

DOT1
zokXE1r78IY

DOT2 & DOT3
RT4vzOa91qI

@marKiu : Nicely done! Your solutions for dot1 and dot2 are more or less intended, being slightly different execution-wise. It is possible to set up dot2 such that the bridge is enabled for longer intervals, but in fact I like your arrangement better since you can just walk over it..
dot3 is not intended - what a strange bug..

Xtreger wrote:
@marKiu : Nicely done! Your solutions for dot1 and dot2 are more or less intended, being slightly different execution-wise. It is possible to set up dot2 such that the bridge is enabled for longer intervals, but in fact I like your arrangement better since you can just walk over it..
dot3 is not intended - what a strange bug..

Heh, I tried the Dot1 solution but quickly gave up given that my accuracy's and attention span are lacking. Still, fun map, and nice to see the actual solutions ^^

Yeah, I could replicate dot1 and dot2, but I don't get the bug with the cube hanging in the air -- I guess an update took care of that. I tried dot3 with a combination of MarKiu's dot1 and dot3 but I just could not get the angle I needed.

Ye I was sure Dot3 is unintended... Since the timer has a catcher the cube needs to be frozen too.
I was trying to let the cube pass two times so I can manipulate both axes and hit Dot3 but I came up with an easier solution. The portable wall to catch the funnel is very high. It must be for a reason...
I'll try it later.

RogerL wrote:
sicklebrick wrote:

RogerL wrote:

I finished the entire map using this method. But it is surely unintended. The nice thing is, there is no way the mapmaker can block this solution. And this method breaks a lot of other maps as well.

Heh, it's not even blocked if you place another cube for example in the line of sight?
I.e. just a visual bug?

I don't know. I need to play with this some more to find out what the hell is going on. It could be an engine bug, it could be a video settings bug, it may even have a logical explanation. Whatever is going on, I don't think Valve is going to like it. Notice that it has many of the same characteristics as your Double Gubble.

Bwahah, I had a bunch of fun with this. Getting into the realm of totally off topic here, but it's fun

TVG5f8DuVl8

Edit:
Got super sidetracked there.. what I was trying to get at was that it seems to stay in place for the same reason as a reflector does when you remove whatever's under it. Hence the portalbumping doesn't bump it out either way, and removing the laser source makes it drop

sicklebrick wrote:
..what I was trying to get at was that it seems to stay in place for the same reason as a reflector does when you remove whatever's under it. Hence the portalbumping doesn't bump it out either way, and removing the laser source makes it drop

Yeah I found that you can stack cubes on it, even stand on it -- its not going anywhere. It would be a lot more useful if you could see the laser coming out, but I could never make it do that. Oddly, you CAN see the laser through the wall portal. (Sorry, Xtreger, last one, I promise.)

sicklebrick wrote:
Bwahah, I had a bunch of fun with this. Getting into the realm of totally off topic here, but it's fun

--youtube--

Edit:
Got super sidetracked there.. what I was trying to get at was that it seems to stay in place for the same reason as a reflector does when you remove whatever's under it. Hence the portalbumping doesn't bump it out either way, and removing the laser source makes it drop

Something similar I found in one of my unreleased maps.
(not planned to be in one of the mods; just something I did for the lolz)
thKoFNUgZk0

I had to avoid this bug in Encode. It can be done with a trigger_push with a tiny vertical speed of 1. It's impossible to notice that it's there since it's so weak, but it breaks the laser/cube bug.

lpfreaky90 wrote:
sicklebrick wrote:

Bwahah, I had a bunch of fun with this. Getting into the realm of totally off topic here, but it's fun

--youtube--

Edit:
Got super sidetracked there.. what I was trying to get at was that it seems to stay in place for the same reason as a reflector does when you remove whatever's under it. Hence the portalbumping doesn't bump it out either way, and removing the laser source makes it drop

Something similar I found in one of my unreleased maps.
(not planned to be in one of the mods; just something I did for the lolz)

thKoFNUgZk0

Dammit, I was planning to use the exact same mechanic in the same way!
Looking forward to the map though

grayarea wrote:
I had to avoid this bug in Encode. It can be done with a trigger_push with a tiny vertical speed of 1. It's impossible to notice that it's there since it's so weak, but it breaks the laser/cube bug.

Good to know, cheers ^^

grayarea wrote:
I had to avoid this bug in Encode. It can be done with a trigger_push with a tiny vertical speed of 1. It's impossible to notice that it's there since it's so weak, but it breaks the laser/cube bug.

I'll have to look into that sometime soon. Seriously just how many bugs are there?!

Xtreger wrote:
Seriously just how many bugs are there?!

A lot... it gets really fun when you start getting into random hammer and portal crashes.
By the way, for any map makers I can really recommend using a tool like TortoiseHg for version control of your vmf files. It saved my skin a few times when dealing with nasty bugs.

I'll post the intended demos soon (somehow Fraps isn't working). By tomorrow maybe...

Wait, wait... I think I have a way to get 3-dot in a legit way. Give me a day, please.

RogerL wrote:
Wait, wait... I think I have a way to get 3-dot in a legit way. Give me a day, please.

Sure thing

My buggy way to disable the fizzler :


5SVSp0HvhV8

Nope, couldn't get it to work. The closest I got was about one small wall tile away. My idea was to start like MarKiu, with the laser pointing down through the floor portal. My idea was to then move the wall portal up so it still catches the funnel, but moves the laser up. The problem with that was it moves the funnel from the floor back, which negated some of the height increase. So I was left one bloody tile away and I'm through trying. I know I'm going to kick myself when I see the solution. Btw, the floor portal was angled about 45 degrees with the long axis pointing towards the 3-dot catcher.

a2912871 wrote:
My buggy way to disable the fizzler :

5SVSp0HvhV8

That's awesome... looks almost deliberate too as there aren't many other tiles sticking out

RogerL wrote:
Nope, couldn't get it to work...

Been eager to see the actual solution here too.

Edit: 4 useless solutions for the old version:

aNMns_uL-i4
-R54teBrelQ
ntuR8b4SN-E
-uiYWBov53A

grayarea doesn't like me? Oh well.Maybe because I dont comment on his maps.No big loss.More maps I like better as this one shows promise.I dont like his maps so they are for a certain crowd.Not sure what he speaks about negative stuff thou.Think he has wrong person. Sorry Xtreger but he brought it up in here and since it wasnt removed I had to reply

Map is getting much better Xtreger. Getting a bit over my challenge level but I will keep at it as I usually do

sicklebrick wrote:
Here's what I've come up with in the mean time...

Your solutions certainly don't lack creativity or originality. All they lack is the latest version of the map. And I call "noclip" on the first two.

andyb wrote:
Seems to be a niche group here who like to be spanked

Isn't this from grayarea's Triplex thread? This is insulting to both the mapmaker and those trying to solve it.

RogerL wrote:

Your solutions certainly don't lack creativity or originality. All they lack is the latest version of the map. And I call "noclip" on the first two.

Aaah balls, didn't notice that!
Honestly I can't remember if the first 2 are even possible without noclip anymore. Seems feasable if you've already gotten the first one..(still fiddly).. but I got a OCD on dot3!

Donesies

Qm8w4M4kN8Q

Actually way easier to pull off than I thought...
Point the cube at the laser receptacle from above the portal, and strafe over to maintain the angle as you get on the button. The funnel won't affect the cube on the ground.

One thing to note.. the blue portal is way over to the left of the thin surface.. so as the funnel comes out of the orange one, it's slightly towards the player and off center. This extra 'buffer' seems to hold the cube more central to the portal than if the funnel was line up perfectly, as otherwise it'd be tugged off to the side of the orange one.

sicklebrick wrote:
Donesies

Actually way easier to pull off than I thought...
Point the cube at the laser receptacle from above the portal, and strafe over to maintain the angle as you get on the button. The funnel won't affect the cube on the ground.

One thing to note.. the blue portal is way over to the left of the thin surface.. so as the funnel comes out of the orange one, it's slightly towards the player and off center. This extra 'buffer' seems to hold the cube more central to the portal than if the funnel was line up perfectly, as otherwise it'd be tugged off to the side of the orange one.

haha brilliant!! It shouldn't be that difficult to execute as well (it's not intended though).. I really appreciate your attempts and the solutions that you came up with. And believe it or not, I had your "ghetto" in mind as well. That's why I deliberately put the camera on a portalable surface, so good job

a2912871 wrote:
My buggy way to disable the fizzler :

(video)

Awesome. That was not buggy at all.. I just projected those two wall tiles slightly outward (2 units or so) and put a camera in between, just out of curiosity if someone could notice it. This would be my alternate "ninja" solution. You're the first one; pretty sharp observation indeed!

@sicklebrick: that's genius ...Edit: and if you hadn't just given it away, I think it would be a legitimate solution to a beautifully evil puzzle.

grayarea wrote:
@sicklebrick: that's genius ...Edit: and if you hadn't just given it away, I think it would be a legitimate solution to a beautifully evil puzzle.

I thought of making that a part of the solution, but it's so non-standard that many people would condemn me for keeping that the only way out.

Lol, little bummed I found a solution now... this map's been keeping me amused at work for a few days :p Maybe I misread, but is there another solution still using the camera but not the companion cube? 'Cause lining stuff up on the camera's a bit of a nightmare.

grayarea wrote:
...I think it would be a legitimate solution to a beautifully evil puzzle.

Amazingly evil for a first map too!

Xtreger wrote:
..it's so non-standard that many people would condemn me..

True, but I think those people need to go re-play the valve maps or get deeply into angry birds.

Personally, I can't get enough of these completely novel techniques and you've brought quite a few with this map. More please.

grayarea wrote:
Personally, I can't get enough of these completely novel techniques and you've brought quite a few with this map. More please.

I'm with you there man ^^

Last vid for now :p

z5wNvi4veXo

sicklebrick wrote:
Donesies

I tried the opposite of that, using the companion cube to move the reflectocube in the funnel. The first time I tried that, it was turning the cube, but I slipped off the button and the cube fell. Ever since then, the cube is frozen in the funnel. I have no idea how I caused the glitch, and I haven't been able to repeat it, so I abandoned that method.

If I could get the cube to fall through the floor portal from the funnel without hitting the edge of the portal, I'd have a solution. As it is, it bumps the side of the portal every time, giving a random orientation. By repeatedly dropping the cube (by jumping on the button) I have managed to hit a laser target, but this is so random that even though it will work, it could conceivably take hundreds or even thousands of repetitions.

KennKong, one thing I've noticed is that if a reflector cube is both motionless and redirecting a laser, then it can't be nudged using another cube, no matter how hard you bash it. It's related to the earlier mentioned frozen-cube bug, I think. It is possible to nudge a cube with the player's body however. Really weird rules valve has dreamed up.
p.s. I was wondering where you were!

KennKong wrote:
sicklebrick wrote:

Donesies

I tried the opposite of that, using the companion cube to move the reflectocube in the funnel. The first time I tried that, it was turning the cube, but I slipped off the button and the cube fell. Ever since then, the cube is frozen in the funnel. I have no idea how I caused the glitch, and I haven't been able to repeat it, so I abandoned that method.

If I could get the cube to fall through the floor portal from the funnel without hitting the edge of the portal, I'd have a solution. As it is, it bumps the side of the portal every time, giving a random orientation. By repeatedly dropping the cube (by jumping on the button) I have managed to hit a laser target, but this is so random that even though it will work, it could conceivably take hundreds or even thousands of repetitions.

Unfortunately that bug makes the cube pretty solid.. you can run about on it and allsorts...
I tried the same way as you for ages; jumping off the button, and letting the cube re-orientate as it comes through the wall portal. There's a wee trick to setting up the funnels so that the cube doesn't clip the edges though. Basically, if your orange portal is on the ground, and the blue one is on the wall, place the blue one off center, so the funnel comes out of the orange one off center.
This way, at the point where the funnels meet, the cube will be tugged off to the side, but the off center vertical funnel will compensate for it.
Still had no luck with it though

KennKong wrote:
I tried the opposite of that, using the companion cube to move the reflectocube in the funnel. The first time I tried that, it was turning the cube, but I slipped off the button and the cube fell. Ever since then, the cube is frozen in the funnel. I have no idea how I caused the glitch, and I haven't been able to repeat it, so I abandoned that method.

If I could get the cube to fall through the floor portal from the funnel without hitting the edge of the portal, I'd have a solution. As it is, it bumps the side of the portal every time, giving a random orientation. By repeatedly dropping the cube (by jumping on the button) I have managed to hit a laser target, but this is so random that even though it will work, it could conceivably take hundreds or even thousands of repetitions.

You're close... think just a bit further

Maybe it's possible to stand on the button and use the companion cube to push the reflector cube a bit to the right. So when it drops it wont hit the edges of the portal. Sadly I don't have any time to try now but I will on sunday.

marKiu wrote:
Maybe it's possible to stand on the button and use the companion cube to push the reflector cube a bit to the right. So when it drops it wont hit the edges of the portal. Sadly I don't have any time to try now but I will on sunday.

Hehe, I tried that for ages too, but it's really hard to judge where the end of the companion cube is.

On a related note though, chuck the camera in with the reflector cube and you have yourself a disco ball.

grayarea wrote:
KennKong, one thing I've noticed is that if a reflector cube is both motionless and redirecting a laser, then it can't be nudged using another cube

Yeah, that's what is was. I got dot 3 done by nudging the reflectocube with the companion cube. I moved the floor portal close to the button to do the adjustments, then moved it back over to the laser. I know it's not the intended solution, but my mathematically perfect and easy solution wouldn't work because of the portal interference I mentioned before.

Of course, now I'm stuck in the next room!

EDIT: Or not! I remembered a trick from getting the "Smash TV" achievement which kept me from rage quitting. If you offset the portal on the source side of the funnel, it will hold you against the portal surface without pusing or pulling you through. All I had to do was drop the cube and back through the portal quickly. I'm looking forward to seeing the intended solution for dot 3.

I think the puzzles in this were good, and the dot 2 solution(s) involving the funnel yoyo was really sweet. Unfortunately, this suffers from the same glitch that drove me up the wall in Triplex. Whenever you redirect a laser through a cube, any change in the laser's path will bump the cube slightly. I got really tired of having to go back and reset the first laser cube.

Overall, this map is a 4, but I'm giving you a bonus point for the dot 2 mechanic. 5/5.

EDIT2: When I went to rate this, I saw your comment that this was your first mapping experience. Holy batshit, Batman!

There is definitely a very small group now that have taken Portal into the area of tricky and undocumented mechanics. While I can see the fascination - and encourage it totally . . . sadly - the majority cannot solve these. I was encouraged to see marKiu's recent effort which was challenging but had no tricky mechanics in it and did not require the Player to be a complete Genius.

Personally I can replicate most of the tricky moves but cannot solve these without the videos.
I was spending huge amounts of time - angrily becoming determined to "get it" with each successive HARD map.

It is odd - I can fix any computer that my customer's put in front of me. However that ability does not port over to this GAME !!! And lately I realize this determination to get through these kinds of maps is tantamount to banging one's head against the wall repeatedly. People just have different kinds of intelligence, I guess.
It really is a niche group of Geniuses - but a nice group too.

Still - I'm addicted and have not played FPS games for 2 years since getting hooked on Portal. The only Games I stil play is Crazy Machines and World of Goo once in a while - both "thinking Games" with no shooting.

PCdoc wrote:
There is definitely a very small group now that have taken Portal into the area of tricky and undocumented mechanics. While I can see the fascination - and encourage it totally . . . sadly - the majority cannot solve these. I was encouraged to see marKiu's recent effort which was challenging but had no tricky mechanics in it and did not require the Player to be a complete Genius.

Personally I can replicate most of the tricky moves but cannot solve these without the videos.
I was spending huge amounts of time - angrily becoming determined to "get it" with each successive HARD map.

It is odd - I can fix any computer that my customer's put in front of me. However that ability does not port over to this GAME !!! And lately I realize this determination to get through these kinds of maps is tantamount to banging one's head against the wall repeatedly. People just have different kinds of intelligence, I guess.
It really is a niche group of Geniuses - but a nice group too.

Still - I'm addicted and have not played FPS games for 2 years since getting hooked on Portal. The only Games I stil play is Crazy Machines and World of Goo once in a while - both "thinking Games" with no shooting.

I don't think that being able to solve these maps is a measure of intelligence at all It has more to do with trying a lot, and besides mappers have a slight advantage since they have an idea on how puzzles are designed

I found a new solution. Uploading soon It's the reversed solution to dot1. Actually very simple but you wont think of it because it seems unlogical.

3gwXSazmxv8


I said before that the floor portal (vertical axis) adjusts the horizontal angle of the cube. So if we think a bit further the wall portal must logically adjust the vertical angle of the cube. But we're not able to change the angle of a wall portal so we have to adjust the cube. This seems impossible because the cube will get sucked back into the portal and we end up with the going-in position. The trick here was placing the cube through the wall portal directly into the crossing funnels. With a little adjustment of the floor portal the laser will hit the catcher.
After all it took me more than 10h to notice that I can f#%ing crouch under the funnel and then 5 minutes to come up with the final solution.
Exellent geometrical task here. Simple and clean in execution (if you know what to do).

This is definitely a 5/5 and opens so many new possibilities with laserpuzzles. Thanks for creating this one. Well done

@marKiu: Nice one! That is not exactly my method, but it doesn't matter at all. It's definitely a proper alternate solution. There is one more way that's easy enough to execute.
BTW why do you have the potato portal gun. I thought I specified a map-spawn removal of the potato.

I don't know... But it seem that only I have this bug :/

This should be close to the intended one
(This solution confuses me... the orange portal should have an angle of 45? but then the laser misses closely.)

aoSP76ya3Po

Very nice marKiu! Some great ideas there.
I had a similar problem with the spuds appearing in other people's videos but not when I played my own map. It was because I didn't have a 1 second delay on the RemovePotatosFromPortalgun output (see here). Maybe the delay needs to be even longer if marKiu is playing on a supercomputer or something?
Edit: anyway marKiu, you also have texture bugs in your videos. You might need to run a check of your local game files in steam...

marKiu wrote:
I found a new solution. Uploading soon It's the reversed solution to dot1. Actually very simple but you wont think of it because it seems unlogical.

3gwXSazmxv8

*
I said before that the floor portal (vertical axis) adjusts the horizontal angle of the cube. So if we think a bit further the wall portal must logically adjust the vertical angle of the cube. But we're not able to change the angle of a wall portal so we have to adjust the cube. This seems impossible because the cube will get sucked back into the portal and we end up with the going-in position. The trick here was placing the cube through the wall portal directly into the crossing funnels. With a little adjustment of the floor portal the laser will hit the catcher.
After all it took me more than 10h to notice that I can f*#%ing crouch under the funnel and then 5 minutes to come up with the final solution.
Exellent geometrical task here. Simple and clean in execution (if you know what to do).

This is definitely a 5/5 and opens so many new possibilities with laserpuzzles. Thanks for creating this one. Well done

Aww man... slapping myself for not thinking of that! Pre-placing it through the wall... genius!

marKiu wrote:
This should be close to the intended one
(This solution confuses me... the orange portal should have an angle of 45? but then the laser misses closely.)

(video)

That's very nice indeed... you seem to have understood the axis-changing trick thoroughly. Unfortunately it's not intended, but who cares about that? Again, pretty good solution!

On a side note, the "reverse of dot1" method that you used for dot3 was intended by me for dot2...

WAT? Still not intended?
Go to hell. I still cant believe that you called this map MEDIUM in the beginning. That makes me want to punch you.
Nah just kidding Had a great time trying some stuff with the axis changing trick. I think I will try this mechanic in my new map. REVENGE!!!

Here's the intended solution (recorded in v1.3):

Video and explanation
jxWDIYD8PzM

At about 0:48 to 0:51, I'm trying to make the cube face the dot1 receptor, as visible through the floor portal. The trick is to find the appropriate orientation of the cube with respect to the floor portal, and this can be done using some reference point on the wall (the receptor for instance). If one gets the angle of the cube wrong, one can readjust accordingly using that "reference point".
Once you have an idea of the orientation with respect to the floor portal, you can almost always get the angle of the cube right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxWDIYD8PzM

Sorry for posting this so late, I had trouble with Fraps...

Xtreger wrote:
Here's the intended solution (recorded in v1.3)...

Hah, too fiddly for my liking on dot 3, but nice solution ^^

Xtreger wrote:
I'm a sadist..

Yes, yes you are.

sicklebrick wrote:
Xtreger wrote:

Here's the intended solution (recorded in v1.3)...

Hah, too fiddly for my liking on dot 3, but nice solution ^^

Xtreger wrote:

I'm a sadist..

Yes, yes you are.

Ah I almost forgot. I recorded this demo a while ago - there is an easier solution for dot3, it's a simplified version of the dot3 method in the video.
I've attached the demo with this post...

Awww... but no one solved dot3 as intended (except possibly for one of your playtesters...ahem). I don't think it's fiddly at all, but on the other hand all of my maps have involved steering bouncing cubes.
Having said that I think marKiu's method is just as good: passing the cube through the wall into the funnel intersection. You can create any desired cube angle with that powerful method.

Also, even though I'm too lazy to make a video, I did find a nice funnel-free solution to the exit room. Throw a cube roughly towards the grating next to the exit and then portal to the grate, grab the cube through the grate and place it on the button. Worked every time for me..

grayarea wrote:
Awww... but no one solved dot3 as intended

Well, I liked some other solutions which were posted more than the intended one

I know the feeling! (thinking back to xtreger breaking my maps...)

OHHHH! FACEPALM -.- I did exactly the same thing like you did in your video exept for the last part. I had the cube bouncing again after I changed the axis once but then I tried to change the axis again. I was thinking to complicated and didn't notice I can just adjust the cube by changing the angle of the portal. I feel very stupid now but anyways great solution.
As I said before this is a great new mechanic and I got some nice ideas how to use it in my next map.
Thanks for sharing this.

Really clever new mechanic, but I never stood a chance, this is definitely hard, nowhere close to medium by any standards.

Now that I've had a chance to study your intended solution and replicate it, I have a few lingering questions. In the first version of this map, you had a kind of half-height wall segment next to the floor button. Your testers said it wasn't there when they played the map, so why did you introduce it? Your intended solution doesn't seem to depend on it in any way.

Also, in your first version, the portable floor under the dropper was flush with the rest of the floor. Then you sunk it in the next iteration, sunk it some more in the next iteration, and then made it flush again in the final version. And I could never figure out why it kept changing. I kept thinking "what is he trying to keep us from doing?" and spent some time trying to figure this out. Never did.

And then as a final comment, even after studying your intended solution many times, including the dem file, I still found it difficult to replicate the 3-dot solution. But I may have just missed or misunderstood some vital piece of information.

RogerL, Xtreger can give you a better answer but the short version is that in playtesting we found a lot of creative ways to send the laser at an angle into the wall portal. Generally speaking this allows you to portal it wherever you like as long as you can find some suitable floor/ceiling portal and steer it at right angles to your target. In Encode it was a massive effort for me to block this type of solution and Xtreger was experimenting with different ways of doing it here.

RogerL wrote:
Now that I've had a chance to study your intended solution and replicate it, I have a few lingering questions. In the first version of this map, you had a kind of half-height wall segment next to the floor button. Your testers said it wasn't there when they played the map, so why did you introduce it? Your intended solution doesn't seem to depend on it in any way.

Also, in your first version, the portable floor under the dropper was flush with the rest of the floor. Then you sunk it in the next iteration, sunk it some more in the next iteration, and then made it flush again in the final version. And I could never figure out why it kept changing. I kept thinking "what is he trying to keep us from doing?" and spent some time trying to figure this out. Never did.

And then as a final comment, even after studying your intended solution many times, including the dem file, I still found it difficult to replicate the 3-dot solution. But I may have just missed or misunderstood some vital piece of information.

I was trying to make changes such that the solution would still be well-disguised, but that all back-fired The wall changes didn't work at all, unfortunately, because I neither had enough foresight nor did I playtest it more myself.
I depressed the floor to block unintended solutions that had been indicated earlier, and ALSO so that the laser wouldn't reach cubes stacked on the floor.
Once I added that wall in the final version, there was no use for the sunken floor, and I thought it'd be better to make the portalable floor level again, since otherwise it would just be a hassle to navigate that area.

As for the dot3 solution, could you specify which part of it you found it difficult to replicate?

Thanks..

Well, it requires a multi-step solution. Some of those steps require precision, some require quickness, and I would usually manage to scew up on one of those steps. It probably says more about my skill-level than anything else. It wasn't a knock against your map. In fact, I greatly enjoyed playing it.

RogerL wrote:
Well, it requires a multi-step solution. Some of those steps require precision, some require quickness, and I would usually manage to scew up on one of those steps. It probably says more about my skill-level than anything else. It wasn't a knock against your map. In fact, I greatly enjoyed playing it.

Thanks Although I don't know about precision, a little quickness is indeed required..

Xtreger wrote:
Although I don't know about precision, a little quickness is indeed required..

I meant precision in placing the cube at the right angle into the portal. I think I did that wrong more times than anything else.

I admit defeat. This map is too much for me.

I would never have solved this on my own and probably would be hard-pressed to solve it even after watching the others' solutions. I'm too old, my fingers are too clumsy, and too brain my stupid is.

I just can't think far enough ahead for these "set up 8 different things in advance then hope they work when you try it" sort of puzzles.

Hat's off to you for creative use of the game's mechanics and kudos for coming up with a map that the genius/ninja players enjoy.